Since the FEBT says they don't have enough cash for both cars, and if they had to make a choice, which car would they rather save and bring back? Is the combine more desireable because it can haul passengers, or the baggage car because there are no other cars of that type on the EBT?



todengine@woh.rr.com

> Since the FEBT says they don't have enough
> cash for both cars, and if they had to make
> a choice, which car would they rather save
> and bring back? Is the combine more
> desireable because it can haul passengers,
> or the baggage car because there are no
> other cars of that type on the EBT?

MY question is, is anybody else known to covet one or both of these cars? For what reason? And are they sympathetic to the FEBT cause, like the Pine Creek RR in NJ with its EBT hopper car? I can't see a car in the condition these are supposedly in being rebuilt for commercial use by anyone save the Strasburg or Grand Canyon (and fortunately, they're the wrong gauge).

Supposing Walt Disney were alive (and younger) and wanted the combine for his personal railroad, Ward-Kimball-style. Would we stand in his way if we knew the car were going to be lovingly restored and kept? What about Bill Gates? Or Rich Pro Athlete?

In Britain, this situation has come about a couple times--with Alan Pegler (and later Tony Marchington & co.) buying LNER 4472 Flying Scotsman, and doing incredible things with the loco which someone like the National Railway Museum could not hope to accomplish. On the other hand, it works the other way as well, as when a famed record-industry executive started buying the preservation-worthy diesels and electrics that no one else could save, then ended up disenchanted with the concept and ridding himself of most of them (some for scrap, as I recall).

Personally, I still hope the FEBT can get them for $1 or $10 each and spend the rest of the money on shipping and/or restoration.

lner4472@bcpl.net

Enterprenurial scrappers will go to these auctions, sometimes in cahoots with the seller and bid many times what something what something historic is worth, because opprtunity knocked and that is the American way. (I have seen this myself)


jjbx@twcny.rr.com

Just want to make one thing clear. We are not bidding on the cars. Heavy into the restoration of Porter #46, we are not in a position to provide financial assistance but have volunteered other support as required.

J.R. May
NJMT
Chairman

> MY question is, is anybody else known to
> covet one or both of these cars? For what
> reason? And are they sympathetic to the FEBT
> cause, like the Pine Creek RR in NJ with its
> EBT hopper car? I can't see a car in the
> condition these are supposedly in being
> rebuilt for commercial use by anyone save
> the Strasburg or Grand Canyon (and
> fortunately, they're the wrong gauge).

> Supposing Walt Disney were alive (and
> younger) and wanted the combine for his
> personal railroad, Ward-Kimball-style. Would
> we stand in his way if we knew the car were
> going to be lovingly restored and kept? What
> about Bill Gates? Or Rich Pro Athlete?

> In Britain, this situation has come about a
> couple times--with Alan Pegler (and later
> Tony Marchington & co.) buying LNER 4472
> Flying Scotsman, and doing incredible things
> with the loco which someone like the
> National Railway Museum could not hope to
> accomplish. On the other hand, it works the
> other way as well, as when a famed
> record-industry executive started buying the
> preservation-worthy diesels and electrics
> that no one else could save, then ended up
> disenchanted with the concept and ridding
> himself of most of them (some for scrap, as
> I recall).

> Personally, I still hope the FEBT can get
> them for $1 or $10 each and spend the rest
> of the money on shipping and/or restoration.


http://www.njmt.org
jrmay@njmt.org

There is not enough metal to provide much value, and metal prices are in the toilet, so the scrapper syndrome SHOULDN'T enter into the picture, BUT FEBT would be wise to NOT publish how much they may or may not have in their war chest.
On another note, perhaps more railroad history people should go to the auction, maybe just our presence would deter would-be shills (when you see someone bidding, interupt them and ask why they want it! When it comes to preservation, I ain't shy or sometimes even polite!
S'
David Dewey
(if it weren't some 20 hours away, I'd be there!_


djdewey@cncnet.com

Having laid hands on these cars a few years back, and figuring they haven't spontaneously improved since, there isn't a lot of marketable value in them. The wooden carbodies will require very extensive reconstruction, and the metal hardware isn't worth the cost of removing it from the cars. at today's scrap value.

The most probable potential problem from FEBT POV is the ignorant collector who has no idea what he may be buying, and will not find out until too late. Take a look at the prices of broken generic steam gages on Ebay if you doubt.

These cars were never finely crafted victorian polished varnish, just very workmanlike useful cars, and have less "antique" appeal. The cost of rebuilding them for operation is more than building new cars, and operating on those very lightweight composite trucks - asking for trouble.

In a rational market FEBT would be the only interested bidder since the best use for these cars is as artifacts of EBT. Here's hoping rational people show up and leave the flaky foamers with bulging wallets and few clues at home.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> In a rational market FEBT would be the only
> interested bidder since the best use for
> these cars is as artifacts of EBT. Here's
> hoping rational people show up and leave the
> flaky foamers with bulging wallets and few
> clues at home.

> Dave

What about as the ONLY relic of the AuSable and Northwestern?

R/R Steve


rrsteve@aol.com

> What about as the ONLY relic of the AuSable
> and Northwestern?

> R/R Steve

AMEN! It may also the only surviving piece of equipment for ANY Detroit & Mackinac predecessor line. For those that don't know, a brief history of the AuSable & Northwestern from the Michiganrailroads.com site:

The AuSable and Northwestern Railroad was primarily a logging route, which also ran passenger or mixed trains between the towns in the northeastern region of Michigan's lower penninsula. The railroad was first built from the Potts Lumber and Salt Company headquarters in Potts (along the AuSable River, 12 miles east of Mio) northeast to Russell, in Alcona County. The railroad was originally narrow gauge [3 foot]. The company overextended itself late in the century when it tried to built a line from Potts to AuSable on Lake Huron. The railroad was purchased by the Loud Lumber Company and the name of Potts was changed to McKinley, in honor of the United States President. McKinley continued to be the AS&NW hub until the many of the railroad facilities burned. The Loud company picked up what was remaining and moved to Comins in northeast Oscoda County, which was known as "The End of the Line", because it was the farthest inland passenger stop. Only logging branches went further. The AS&NW was sold to the Detroit and Mackinac Railroad around 1910 and became the AS&NW branch of the D&M. The gauge of the main line and some branches was changed to standard gauge at that time. The AS&NW branch was completely abandoned during the depression.


Port Huron Museum

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org