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 Post subject: Old knuckle identification
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:56 pm
Posts: 185
Location: Norwalk, Ohio
Anybody recognize what kind of knuckle this might be? I lugged this home a few years ago after finding it in the river. The only reason i bothered to bring it home was because it was rather different looking than most i've seen and had a old patent date somewhat visble on top. It is slottted and has the hole for a coupling pin to hold a link in but has no knuckle pin hole like most knuckles.

I have 2 other old slotted knuckles in my old RR iron collection that are slightly smaller in size but they both have the other hole for the knuckle pin. I can't see or tell where any iron is broke off this one but i'm kinda puzzeled as to what held it in place in the coupler drawhead?

It weighs approx. 50lbs. and has "Patented July, what looks like a 24 and what looks like 1889. and has a circular shaped logo with something inside the circle that i can't make out.

I have changed a few knuckles in my RR career over the past 20 years so i know what type E & F knuckles look like and that there is a difference but this old knuckle has me stumped! Thank's for any reply's and insight on this old rusty hunk of iron!

Fritz


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 Post subject: Re: Old knuckle identification
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:43 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:56 pm
Posts: 185
Location: Norwalk, Ohio
Here's another photo if it helps any.


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 Post subject: Re: Old knuckle identification
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 12:00 am
Posts: 554
Location: Dallas ,Texas. USA
I can say what its not.

Its not an AAR -10 or -10A, the predecessors to those were the MCB -10 or MCB-5, its not one of those.

It appears to be from one of the early patented coupler's (there were about one hundred of them, an example would be the early Janney coupler, before it got an MCB contour).

Look it up in the old "Car Builders Cyclopedia" Google and other Co's have them scanned.

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 Post subject: Re: Old knuckle identification
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:26 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:02 am
Posts: 293
It kinda looks like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Syracuse-malleable_1899.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Old knuckle identification
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:26 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:07 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Utah
.


Last edited by Utah Josh on Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Old knuckle identification
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:39 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:07 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Utah
However...could this be it? From page 233 of the 1906 Car Builder's Dictionary:


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 Post subject: Re: Old knuckle identification
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:31 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2055
Location: Southern California
After 1888 a number of coupler designs were developed that coupled with the MCB [Master Car Builders Association] Coupler. By 1900 the MCB had approved 49 manufacturers.

I wrote up some of this and more for the quarterly publication of the Southern Pacific Narrow Gauge Historical Society last year:
Quote:
The modern knuckle coupler has its origins with the patent of Eli H. Janney granted on April 29, 1873. In 1877 he associated himself with the firm of McConway & Torley which produced and improved the coupler. Mr. Janney continued to patent improvements to the coupler as late as 1912 – the year of his death. In time the Master Car Builders Association adopted the term “vertical plane coupler” to identify it in a generic manner. But, the M.C.B. was reluctant to adopt a design whose mating face patent was controlled by one firm; in 1888 it reached an agreement with McConway & Torley that placed the mating face design in public domain. The Master Car Builders Association then adopted the design as the “M.C.B. Coupler.” During this period there were many other variants and improvements patented by others. By the end of 1899 the M.C.B. had approved forty-nine manufacturers of the “vertical plane coupler” that would work together.

The United States in 1893 enacted “Safety Appliance Act” and it became law on March 2, 1893. This provided for application of automatic couplers, automatic brakes and common locations of grab irons on railroad cars. The initial change over date was January 1, 1898, but this was extended to July 1, 1900. The railroads were opposed to the required changes and the costs of doing these.

The law stated, “On January 1, 1898, it will be unlawful for a common carrier used for interstate commerce to haul or permit to be hauled any car that is not equipped with couplers coupling automatically by impact and which can be uncoupled without a man going between the ends of the cars.”

My sources for this were John White's book on freight cars and I found additional information in occasional issues of the Salt Lake City Tribune during the years 1899-1900.

Even after 1888 people were working on other designs of "automatic" couplers. One used on the Carson & Colorado narrow gauge was the Sams Coupler which looked very much like an improved link-and-pin. A significant part was the pin design and one of these was recently recovered from the Nevada desert. The Sams Coupler was used by other narrow gauge and standard gauge lines. The above paragraphs are from our report of this find.

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 Post subject: Re: Old knuckle identification
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:47 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:56 pm
Posts: 185
Location: Norwalk, Ohio
Utah Josh, Your attachment from page 233 of the 1906 Car Builders Dictionary looks like it is the same knuckle! I looked at the knuckle i have more closely and there is a very slight angled break in the casting just behind that raised 1/2 circle part of the casting.So evidently the far right/back smaller casting part broke off the knuckle that is shown in your top right side view diagram. I'm still a bit stumped on what held the darn thing in place though as it has no knuckle pin/hole unless it was the raised 1/2 circle part of the casting wich held it in place?

Guess that's why it ended up in the river since the back pc. broke off! I didn't realize there were so many different types of Janney couplers made by various manufacturers back then with different types of knuckles. Even if they were all developed and compatible with MCB couplers one would think that it had to be a nightmare for railroaders on line of road if one failed and they didn't have a proper replacement knuckle to fit.

Thank you all for the replies and research in helping solve this knuckle of a mystery!


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