Hello Folks,

Just wanted to invite you all to the Owls Head Transportation Museum on January 12th for a presentation of “From Nowhere to Nowhere “.
Centered on the history and operation of the Eagle Lake & West Branch Railroad, "From Nowhere to Nowhere” tells the story of the early mechanization of Maine’s North woods during the first three decades of the last century – an era when steam and steel replace horse and brute manpower in the remote logging camps of the Allagash -when Lombards, Locomotives, steam boats and a Tramway ruled the forest.

Drawing on over 30 years research, with numerous, never seen before Images Interwoven with history, personal stories and anecdotes of those who lived, worked and raised families in this remote region, “From Nowhere to No Where” tells the vivid story of life in Maine’s Allagash Wilderness during the 1900-1933 period as well as the efforts to document, and preserve this remarkable slice of Maine history.

The presentation begins at 1:00 pm and admission to the event is free.

Hope to see you there!

Best regards,

Terry Harper

Gonna try and make it with another mutual friend, if at all possible.

Readers, when you come to Maine, you really need to see the Owls Head Museum. It's often overlooked, yet it's a world class collection and display of early aircraft and automobile, and a few other things of stimulating interest.

Ricchard I hope to see you there! During the 2013 Lecture series the museum will host presentations on several other railroad related topics including The Lime Rock Railroad of Rockport and Trolley Parks of Maine. Here is a list of upcoming lectures:

http://bangordailynews.com/event/transportation-museum-launches-winter-education-series/

Again, The Museum is a wonderful place to visit and a great resource.

Thanks to everyone who attended the lecture yesterday. With 162 people in attendance it was a great start to the museums 2013 Winter lecture series.

Its was great to catch-up with old friends and meet some new ones.

Best regards,

Terry Harper

Now that the presentation is over (the reason for this thread) I'd like to ask a question about the photos in the notice for the lecture. Are the two locomotives pictured the same two as currently reside in Millinocket, Maine, partially restored? Those two are veterans of the Eagle Lake & West Branch. One of the engines is a 2-8-0 built for the Lake Shore & Michigan Southern (NYC System) as their 780, later #5780 and then New York Central 5780. The picture at the top of the notice for the lecture on the EL&WB is a Consolidation, so COULD be that locomotive. Is it? The other engine there in Maine is a Ten-Wheeler that was built for the Chicago, Hammond & Western as their #109, later Indiana Harbor Belt 109, then 115 and finally IHB #15. The engine was sold by the IHB and ended up working for a couple of different short lines before finally ending up as EL&WB #1. The engine pictured in the lower left hand corner of the notice can't be identified as a 4-6-0, but might it be this CH&W/IHB etc. locomotive currently in Maine?

Thanks for any help.

Les

Hello Les,

Yes these are the same locomotives. The top photo of EL&WB No. 2 was taken in 1928 No. 2 (ex-LS&MS 780, NYC 5780) arrived at Tramway in March of that year.

The lower photo is EL&WB No. 1 with a correction it was built as CH&W No. 110 rather than 109. The construction number was verified when we recovered a plate from beneath the locomotive during excavation. The plate that was attached to the backhead and was stamped as No. 8 (Potato Creek) s/n 4553.

It was aquired by Lacroix (the Madawaska Co. )from The General Equipment Company of New York.

Terry -

Really interesting plate photo. I didn't understand the 4553 as the Shop No. until I realized that the "3" was printed backwards. I guess this is plausible considering that the "D" in the word ALLOWED was also printed backwards. Still....would be interesting to hear from J. David as to why he showed the engine as being Schenectady Locomotive Works Serial Number 4552 and not 4553, although he probably did not have knowledge of that shop plate when he published his "Steam Locomotive Directory of North America". Must be a story there somewhere.

Thanks for the explanation of the two photos, and the photo of the plate.

Les

Your welcome Les,

Over the years there was a lot of confusion concerning these locomotives. We didn't find the plate until 1998. - it was under the locomotive.

In addition we also recovered one from a private collection. It is a tin plate that was attached to the side of the cab and had the No. 63 painted on it and was removed by him in the early 1960's. This would confirm the Grasse River connection.

Iam still looking for photos of EL&WB No. No. 1 when it ran as Grasse River No. 63 Knowing its condition when Lacroix aquired it I don't think it saw much service if at all.

Terry -

I got to thinking that the numbers we have "kicked around" here in this discussion of the EL&WB 4-6-0 may not be familiar to some of ther readers of RyPN. So thought I would print the history of the locomotive:

Built by Schenectady Locomotive Works in June of 1897 (construction number 4553) for the Chicago, Hammond & Western Railroad as their #110.

To - Chicago Junction Railway #110 in 1898 (corporate consolidation)

To - Indiana Harbor Belt Railroad #110 in 1907 (corporate sale); later #116, then #16

To - Potato Creek Railroad #8 circa 1918 (sale)

To - Grasse River Railroad #63 circa 1921 (sale)

To - General Equipment Company; a locomotive dealer in 1925 (sale)

To - Umbasooksus & Eagle Lake Railroad #1 in 1926 (sale)

To - Eagle Lake & West Branch #1 in 1927 (sale)

I've simplified some of the history for brevity. I used J. David Conrad's info from his previously mentioned book, but adjusted numbers to reflect the correction from engine 109 to 110, as per information you discovered after the publication of Mr. Conrad's book. If you, or anyone else for that matter, has different info, please make the necessary corrections.

Les

Note - correction above as reported by Terry Harper.

Les

Hello Les,

Just a few corrections.

to General Equipment Company of New York
(the 2-8-0 was purchased from Ferguson & Allen)
I have a series of letters from General Equipment confirming this connection.

to Madawaska Company 1926.
This was the corporate name the EL&WB operated under. The Madawaska Company financed, built and operated the railroad from construction to closing. The 13 mile segment from Tramway (Eagle Lake) to Umbazooksus was always called the Eagle Lake & West Branch railroad as per the 1926 & 27 alignment drawings

However... the five mile section from Umbazooksus Lake (the unloading trestle) to Umbazooksus Meadows was built and owned by great Northern Paper as the Chesuncook & Chamberlain Lake Railroad. During the life of the operation this section was used to move supplies only.

This is all based on corporate records.

Walker and the many others that have followed have gotten the history all mixed-up in this regard claiming a sale to Great Northern etc. and a renaming from Umbazooksus & Eagle Lake to Eagle Lake & West branch etc. This never happened and the records bear this out.

They also claim that both locomotives were operated simultaniously on an opposing schedule using a passing siding...that was not correct as well.

With 162 people present the attendence and interest surpassed all our expectations. Thank you to all those who made the trip!

Terry -

Well, it was a bit far for me to go, but I wish I could have been there. Glad it was so successful. Also, thanks for the corrections.


Les

Hello Les,

Here is one of the letters confirming the purchase from the General Equipment Company.



Sometime in the 1950's Lacroix (the Madawaska Co.) sold his Maine holdings to J.D. Iriving, including the EL&WB. in 1969 J.D. Irving deeded the Tramway property and the locomotives over to the State of Maine.

Reading the letter you will note that Lacroix had accused them of buying the locomotive at scrap value and selling it to him at a considerable profit!

Best regards,

Terry