Does anyone know the where-abouts of Chicago & Norwestern E8 #5031-B? It was built on June 20, 1940, Build #1034, as Kansas City Southern 3, E3A. It was renumbered 23 in January 1942 and was wrecked and rebuilt in January 1952 as E8Am. It was one of two E8's painted white in 1969 (the other was #27) and sold to the C&NW as 5031B in January 1970. It was delivered to C&NW on April 1970. It was sold again to RTA on December 31, 1977, and assigned 411, but it was not renumbered. It was retired March 23, 1983, and sold to the Smoky Hill Railway and Historical Society in March 1985. I understand the Smoky Hill operation to now be the Belton, Grandview, and Kansas City Railroad. Their website contains little information. Does anyone know if they still have this locomotive or where it may be now? Thanks.

KCS #3 EMC photo from the collection of Nick Muff

If it was "rebuilt" by EMD to an E8Am you can bet it was basically a newly-built unit with maybe a few parts like the trucks remanufactured and reused from the original E3. There's really no structural commonality between an E3 and an E8 and very few mechanical similarities in terms of layout.

Unfortunately, the unit was parted out and scrapped, probably in the late 80's.

Here's a pic of the old gal after she arrived in KC shortly before the end:
http://trainweb.org/mopac/cnw5031B.jpg

The KC RR Museum(Smoky Hill) had quite a collection of KCS passenger cars(either on property or via access to them). They owned the HOSPITALITY and their members had sleepers, a baggage-mail car, a diner, a coach, a baggage-mail-dorm, etc. All that was missing was the engine to put together a true consist.

I was told they let C&NW know, before the units were even retired, that they wanted one once the railroad was done with them. There were only three of the KCS units left(one had been involved in a wreck at Lake Geneva years earlier and was scrapped).

I don't know the exact details, but the museum found someone with deep pockets who actually bought the unit and then donated it to the museum as a tax write off. I was told no one went to Chicago to inspect the unit, it just arrived one day, sight unseen. Lacking technical terms here, the motor was bad, the unit couldn't run. Some suspected the C&NW removed a good motor, and replaced it with the bad one, thinking the museum wanted the unit as a static display only.

So they overpaid for it, they didn't communicate as they should have......

At the same time, they had gotten or were trying to get, those two Rock Island E units(that actually worked). To get KCS 23 running again would have been costly, at a time when there would be several E units to repair and maintain . Or it could have been kept as an expensive yard ornament.

I think the decision was made to maybe sell it back to the original buyer( for a dollar) or swap him something , to give him a chance to get some of his money back. The unit was parted out to keep other E units running, and what was left was cut up and sold at scrap value.

Anyone, feel free to fill in any details, as this was long ago, and I wasn't there.

I was there, and am now and have been for a long time, an ex-member of the Smokey Hill group.

The 2 Rock Island E units (E6 and E8) were, indeed, operable when received, thanks to the quiet efforts of a now exSmokey Hill member and the 47th St. "Rocket House" in Chicago. The E6, RI 630, was brought out of storage and run through the shop, where it got oil and filter changes on both engines, new brushes in both main generators, all new filters, and a full FRA biannual inspection, including the air brake equipment brought up to date.

Soon after arrival at Smokey Hill, the 630 was repainted at MAC and it's original nose shield was returned to it by a former RI employee. Soon after that, the locomotive began to deteriorate and suffer from misuse and abuse. Before very long it was totally inoperable.

IIRC, Smokey Hill at the time was going though a lot of problems, both internal and external. It had been forced to reloate from downtown KC, then there was in internal coup of sorts, followed by an effort to become a tourist railroad. They moved some of their stuff to a former Air Force base in the suburbs, where access was difficult. Finances were shakey and getting worse, so the group started selling off and scrapping their equipment. They had an entire UP rotary snowplow and support train, including diner, coach, tool and support cars. Everything was scrapped except the rotary and it's tender, which are now on display at IRM. They had a DD40AX, which is also now at IRM. The KCS E unit was cannibalized for parts for the RI E8, then scrapped. A number of other cars and cabooses were scrapped.

Equipment owners moved their cars away from there quickly. A lot of Smokey Hill stuff sat on a siding in Dobson, MO for years, subject to weather, theft, and vandalism.

The group went through several more internal wars, then sold both RI E units to the group in Baldwin, KS. The units were then later resold and are now in the good hands of Dan Sabin and his Iowa Northern RR.

The group, AFAIK, is still in existence, but is a shadow of it's former self, having "burned the house down to keep warm." It's a sad, similar story to what is being played out at the Kentucky Railway Museum, wherein the original mission was lost to those who just wanted to play train.

Please note that all of this happened 30+ years ago and my memory of some of the details may be foggy or flat out wrong. Getting old is not for the faint of heart.

Lincoln -

Is Smokey Hill the group that owned SLSF 2-8-2 #1352 for a while? As I recall, it was owned by a group in the Kansas City area, but maybe I have the wrong one.

Thanks.

Les

Yes, this is the reason that Smokey Hill formed...... to preserve, protect, and restore this engine. I believe it was stored somewhere out in Lenexa, KS when they had it.

The 1352 was displayed in Swope Park for years, and was flooded in the late 1970's.

Later, it was removed from the park and stored at Intercontinental Engineering in Parkville, MO. It has been moved since then and has been the subject of at least one abortive attempt at restoration, with another percolating.

And yes, Intercon had a number of the UP Big Blow GTELs stored there after removing the turbines and most heavy electrical stuff. The turbines now at Ogden and IRM were at Intercon for years.