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C&EI (ex LV) coach #405 sold to?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34518		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  C&EI (ex LV) coach #405 sold to?
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/detail.asp?id=523&n=CEI-Lehigh-Valley-Coach-405-SOLD

Ozark site sez LV #405 was sold. Any ideas on where she's headed?

Rob
Author:  hytwr1 [ Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LV coach #405 sold to?
Is that the car that was at MOT in St. Louis?

Bill
Author:  Les Beckman [ Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LV coach #405 sold to?
hytwr1 wrote:
Is that the car that was at MOT in St. Louis?

Bill


Bill -

Yes, it's at (or was at) MOT. But, it's NOT LV coach #405. Here is the story as learned on the C&EI discussion website: The C&EI purchased three 1911-built passenger cars from the Lehigh Valley in 1937 or 1938. The three cars were LV numbers 874, 875 and 868. Numbered respectivelly 300, 301 and 302 by the C&EI. The cars were apparently used during World War II on a passenger train serving the Newport Arsenal in Indiana. In 1946/1947 the C&EI renumbered the cars as 405, 406 and 407 respectivelly. Thus, this car is Lehigh Valley #874, then C&EI #300 and finally C&EI #405. The cars were stricken from the C&EI roster in 1950, although the 874/300/405 might have lasted longer before being donated to MOT.

Les
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LV coach #405 sold to?
Les Beckman wrote:
hytwr1 wrote:
Is that the car that was at MOT in St. Louis?

Bill


Bill -

Yes, it's at (or was at) MOT. But, it's NOT LV coach #405. Here is the story as learned on the C&EI discussion website: The C&EI purchased three 1911-built passenger cars from the Lehigh Valley in 1937 or 1938. The three cars were LV numbers 874, 875 and 868. Numbered respectivelly 300, 301 and 302 by the C&EI. The cars were apparently used during World War II on a passenger train serving the Newport Arsenal in Indiana. In 1946/1947 the C&EI renumbered the cars as 405, 406 and 407 respectivelly. Thus, this car is Lehigh Valley #874, then C&EI #300 and finally C&EI #405. The cars were stricken from the C&EI roster in 1950, although the 874/300/405 might have lasted longer before being donated to MOT.

Les



Wow, great information, Les. I wonder if she will stay in the midwest or make it back to coal country?

I have read some reports that made me think all three cars still survive. Is the one erroneously known as "405" the only one on your radar?

Rob
Author:  Les Beckman [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LV coach #405 sold to?
Rob -

I have no radar; only what I read from the C&EI discussion group. I am trying to think where the two other C&EI/LV 1911 heavyweights would have gone back in 1950 when they were stricken from the C&EI's roster, if not to scrap. There are two places that I can think of offhand. First, the Chicago & Western Indiana. The C&WI had a commuter service that ran out of Chicago's Dearborn Station, and the C&EI was one of the Western Indiana's owners. Perhaps back in 1950, the two C&EI/LV coaches might have been an "upgrade" for two still older cars. However, if this happened, they must not have lasted long on the C&WI as the railroad soon had five ex-Erie (another C&WI owner) Stillwell's in commuter service, along with a single ex-Chicago & Alton "backup" car and a single combine. The only other place might have been Newport Arsenal itself, if there was a need for a passenger car (or two) to show guests around. A friend and his family invited me on a "Volksmarch" a few years ago at Newport, and the track at that place had all been removed.

What reports did you read that makes you think these other two cars also survive?

Les
Author:  robertjohndavis [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: C&EI (ex LV) coach #405 sold to?
Hi Les,

About the time the MOT first offered this car I received a report of a sister car or two in Illinois. I don't have anything more to go on.

Rob
Author:  Les Beckman [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: C&EI (ex LV) coach #405 sold to?
robertjohndavis wrote:
Hi Les,

About the time the MOT first offered this car I received a report of a sister car or two in Illinois. I don't have anything more to go on.

Rob


Rob -

Got to thinking about this and wondered if it might be a Lehigh Valley car from that same group of three cars (868, 874 and 875), but was NOT sold to the C&EI back in the late 1930's. So, going from the angle that it was a LV car, I did some checking and lo and behold, found an old thread on RyPN about a possible car. David Wilkins stated in that thread that there was a LV heavyweight car that ended up being used on the old Clinchfield trains (behind 4-6-0 #1) that eventually was given by the Clinchfield to the Kentucky Railway Museum to settle some kind of a debt. This particular car was subsequently sold by KRM in the 1980's to a "private party". I wonder if this might be the sister car in Illinois that you read about in that report? Maybe David can shed a bit more light on this possibility.

Les
Author:  wilkinsd [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: C&EI (ex LV) coach #405 sold to?
Les,

I don't know where the ex-LV/CRR/KRM car went, but it had the same "look" as the C&EI one pictured in this thread, with the high windows. The one that ended up at KRM had aluminum sash installed by the CRR. From what I understand, it was pretty rotten, and when sold, it was taken out of KRM in Louisville on a flat car. It left KRM before 1989, so who knows where it is now, or where it ended up.

David
Author:  etalcos [ Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: C&EI (ex LV) coach #405 sold to?
David, Gang,

I did the prep work on the KRM car back when. It was sold to John Birmingham/Colorado Pacific/CLPX. The car was the last one to leave the old site in Louisville and had to be craned back to live track as CSX had pulled the switch. It did leave on its own wheels after some extensive truck work -- broken swing hanger pin and some spring/swing hanger damage on one truck.

The old car was really rotten, and I did suggest parting it out and cutting it up, but the owner liked it. It wound up at MWRHF(?) in Cleveland, OH and I would say based on their recent parts for sale listings that it has now gone on to railroad car heaven.

ETA
Author:  Les Beckman [ Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: C&EI (ex LV) coach #405 sold to?
ETA -

Thanks for the history. Maybe someone from the Midwest Railway Historical Foundation can comment about the car and confirm it is no longer in existance.

Les
Author:  Les Beckman [ Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LV coach #405 sold to?
robertjohndavis wrote:
Les Beckman wrote:
hytwr1 wrote:
Is that the car that was at MOT in St. Louis?

Bill


Bill -

Yes, it's at (or was at) MOT. But, it's NOT LV coach #405. Here is the story as learned on the C&EI discussion website: The C&EI purchased three 1911-built passenger cars from the Lehigh Valley in 1937 or 1938. The three cars were LV numbers 874, 875 and 868. Numbered respectivelly 300, 301 and 302 by the C&EI. The cars were apparently used during World War II on a passenger train serving the Newport Arsenal in Indiana. In 1946/1947 the C&EI renumbered the cars as 405, 406 and 407 respectivelly. Thus, this car is Lehigh Valley #874, then C&EI #300 and finally C&EI #405. The cars were stricken from the C&EI roster in 1950, although the 874/300/405 might have lasted longer before being donated to MOT.

Les



Wow, great information, Les. I wonder if she will stay in the midwest or make it back to coal country?

I have read some reports that made me think all three cars still survive. Is the one erroneously known as "405" the only one on your radar?

Rob


Stumbled across this thread and realized that it got "sidetracked" concerning another possible C&EI/LV survivor and that the answer to where 874/300/405 ended up after being sold, was never answered. So, it's now been about 3 and a half years; anybody have any info on this Chicago & Eastern Illinois nee-Lehigh Valley coach?

Les
Author:  Les Beckman [ Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: C&EI (ex LV) coach #405 sold to?
I did a bit of additional searching on the net and found this photo of the car:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=4030443

Note that the photo was taken in November of 2014 and shows the car under cover at the MOT. Makes me wonder if the sale might have fallen through, but perhaps the car has been moved out since the shot was taken. Perhaps someone associated with MOT could comment.

Les
Author:  jmlaboda [ Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: C&EI (ex LV) coach #405 sold to?
Quote:
David Wilkins stated in that thread that there was a LV heavyweight car that ended up being used on the old Clinchfield trains (behind 4-6-0 #1) that eventually was given by the Clinchfield to the Kentucky Railway Museum to settle some kind of a debt. This particular car was subsequently sold by KRM in the 1980's to a "private party". I wonder if this might be the sister car in Illinois that you read about in that report? Maybe David can shed a bit more light on this possibility.


While a sister car to the ones on C&EI these were former LV cars by way of the Georgia RR.
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