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 Post subject: Kentucky Central #11
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:13 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2590
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
I'm guessing this is Reader #11. I'm also guessing she picked up that giant tender somewhere along the way and it was not supplied by Baldwin. She looks complete but in need of a little tlc.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10520947@N08/5055774250/

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 Post subject: Re: Kentucky Central #11
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:28 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2727
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
For some reason, I thought she picked that tender up on the Reader. When I was at KRM there was some discussion of brining her there to operate, but nothing really ever came of it. Kind of a shame to see a once operable locomotive turned into a park engine. The Baldwin "stock" 2-6-2 is a perfect size locomotive for many a museum and tourist line.

Also, that is a nice looking L&N "little woody" caboose behind her. I wonder where she has been all of these years.

Oh, and the "Riney B" was the nickname for a railroad in the area. The formal name was the Richmond, Irvine, Nicholasville and Beattyville Railroad. The initials on the side of their cars was "RIN&B," which lead to the nickname. The line was later taken over by the L&N. I can't think of the name of the railroad, but it did receive some coverage in Elmer Sulzer's Ghost Railroads of Kentucky

Edit: I just happen to have the August, 1966 issue of Trains in my office (don't ask), which has an article on the debut of Reader 1702. There is a photo of the 1702 next to the 11, and the 11 appears to have the large tender she currently has.

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 Post subject: Re: Kentucky Central #11
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:40 pm 

All talk of moving #11 to KRM died after R.J. Corman crushed passenger cars also belonging to #11's owner while enroute to KRM. Also on that note it was Corman who donated the time, men, and machinary involved in moving #11 to RINEY-B park in Nicholasville, KY which happened just last weekend. Corman also donated and moved the woody caboose which is reported to have come from Carlise, KY.

The money and materials for painting #11 have also reportedly been secured and she will be getting much needed TLC. For those of you who haven't heard the story #11 operated on the "Kentucky Central" tourist railroad until 1993 over the TTI Railroad in Paris, KY. When CSX purchased TTI in 1993 Kentucky Central got the boot and #11 was shoved onto a siding where she rested outdoors for almost two decades until now.


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kentucky Central #11
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:50 pm 

Quote:
Oh, and the "Riney B" was the nickname for a railroad in the area. The formal name was the Richmond, Irvine, Nicholasville and Beattyville Railroad. The initials on the side of their cars was "RIN&B," which lead to the nickname. The line was later taken over by the L&N. I can't think of the name of the railroad, but it did receive some coverage in Elmer Sulzer's Ghost Railroads of Kentucky


The Riney-B was built begining in 1887 (or that area) in conjunction with another railroad called the Louisville Southern which both had secret financial backing from the Monon. The idea was to build the Riney-B and reach the East Kentucky coal fields before the L&N. The Louisville Southern would provide direct competition for the Louisville to Lexington route. Using this attack the Monon wished to put the L&N out of business and take it over.

However, the L&N figured everything out and sent men acting on their behalf to New York to purchase all available Monon stock. By the time everything was over the L&N had control over The Monon, Louisville Southern, and the Riney-B. The Riney-B went into receivership in 1909 where the L&N purchased it outright and renamed it the Louisville and Atlantic Railroad where it operated as a subsidary until 1934 when abandoned.

Riney-B Park where this engine is now located contains a nice long section of the original Riney-B roadbed.


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kentucky Central #11
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:29 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:31 pm
Posts: 295
Location: TEXAS
Great, just great...with all the uncared for hulks in the country, they had to pick the perfect little tourist engine to sit there and rot. And, yes, we did try to do something about it, and were refused a reply.

Another insignificant local pipedream about an insignificant failure of a railroad gets to display an engine with zero significance to the interpretation of the history at hand. Sure would have been nice to have returned this engine to more familiar locals, and in an operable form. At least the pigeons have a nice place to roost.


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 Post subject: Re: Kentucky Central #11
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:32 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:31 pm
Posts: 295
Location: TEXAS
BTW the #11 got the big tender in about 1963-63, when the original was struck by a truck at a road crossing. I believe David P Morgan was aboard at the time!

My Gawd that is so sad to have the engine set up like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Kentucky Central #11
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:21 am
Posts: 488
As already mentioned, Kentucky Central quit operating in 1993 when TTI was purchased by CSX. Soon afterwards, CSX pulled the switch, and #11 was stuck along with other equpment.
KRM made attempts to purchase or lease the loco (I'm not familiar with the details) but were rebuffed by the owner, the local NRHS chapter.....
As of recently, #11 was threatened by the landowner who wanted it gone. There was real concern of scrapping.
Therefore, while this "stuffed and mounted" end is far, far from optimal, it does preserve the engine. We all hope that future generations will care for it. At least it didn't get scrapped.
While R J Corman is not a "rail preservationist", there is reason to applaud the help to save this loco.
In my opinion, and many many other folks' opinions locally, the NRHS managment was extremely incompetent in this issue for an extended period of time.


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 Post subject: Re: Kentucky Central #11
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:40 am 

Quote:
As of recently, #11 was threatened by the landowner who wanted it gone. There was real concern of scrapping.
Therefore, while this "stuffed and mounted" end is far, far from optimal, it does preserve the engine. We all hope that future generations will care for it. At least it didn't get scrapped.
While R J Corman is not a "rail preservationist", there is reason to applaud the help to save this loco.
In my opinion, and many many other folks' opinions locally, the NRHS managment was extremely incompetent in this issue for an extended period of time.


Mr. Jordan is quite correct. While #11 would be a perfect tourist engine right now she's in a much better situation. She is in a nice well kept and secure park and more importantly under security lights. Plus she'll be getting a nice piant job and cleaning soon which will keep her preserved for future efforts. Also on the plus side while not the most historically accurate presentation she is being put in what looks like will be a nice display at the front of the park. She'll be in the public eye and may get some people interested in just what the old thing actually is.

Sure beats sitting on a siding unprotected somewhere with a P.O'ed landowner looking for somebody with a torch. Who knows if it sits there a couple of years somebody over at R.J.'s P.R. department might take a look into what would it take to get the thing running if the Lexington Dinner Train thing ever gets off the ground. Park engines have made comebacks before and will again. Just look at Southern 154.

BTW Mark, speaking of KY steamers have you heard of any progress on K&T #14 since they got that grant??


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kentucky Central #11
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:55 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:21 am
Posts: 488
Quote:
BTW Mark, speaking of KY steamers have you heard of any progress on K&T #14 since they got that grant??

I have not been involved with the #14 project since 2004, and it has it's share of problems. Any comments I make concerning it can become inflamed, so I won't comment.


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 Post subject: Re: Kentucky Central #11
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:28 pm
Posts: 480
Question for "boilerwash"-in your October 6 post, you say something to the effect of RJ Corman "crushing" cars. Can you elaborate?


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 Post subject: Re: Kentucky Central #11
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:23 pm 

Quote:
Question for "boilerwash"-in your October 6 post, you say something to the effect of RJ Corman "crushing" cars. Can you elaborate?


Not trying to flame R.J. in anyway but nonetheless "crushed" is the best word to describe what happened. Central KY NHRS also owned (besides the #11) a couple of 20's era Erie-Lacawanna coaches which where used for the 1989-1993 excursions over TTI. These were also kept in Paris until arrangements were made to house them at KRM. Part of the move was handled by R.J. Corman.

The cars were handled by a crew which were not experienced in handling antique equipment. They were made part of a coal train and placed at the HEAD END inbetween the locomotives and loaded coal cars. Slack action did its thing and the ends of both cars were crushed in like you stepping onto a soda can. One car was also bent in the middle upwards. Damage was extensive enough that both cars were scrapped on the spot in Lexington.

After that talk of moving #11 or anything else to New Haven died off.


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kentucky Central #11
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:46 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2824
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
The argument against moving to KRM is unfortunate. Follow the logic. #11 did not move because of discomfort with RJ Corman. But, they did have RJ Corman move #11 to the park. Once they had #11 loaded on a truck, it could have gone anywhere. So, I see no logic in blaming RJ Corman for its failure to move to KRM.

RJ Corman is a class act. I am sure they were very embarrassed by the coach accident.

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 Post subject: Re: M&NF #14
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:00 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:50 am
Posts: 399
I spoke recently(about 2 weeks ago) to the folks at Big South Fork and was told that the newest grant money has not offically arrived yet. They are gearing up for it when it arrives.
Hopefully it will arrive soon. I look forward to seeing #14 in operation first hand.

JD Johnson, Morehead and North Fork Railroad Historian


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 Post subject: Re: Kentucky Central #11
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:46 pm 

Quote:
The argument against moving to KRM is unfortunate. Follow the logic. #11 did not move because of discomfort with RJ Corman. But, they did have RJ Corman move #11 to the park. Once they had #11 loaded on a truck, it could have gone anywhere. So, I see no logic in blaming RJ Corman for its failure to move to KRM.


This is running the risk of starting something heated but Mr. Jordan has already mentioned it somewhat in passing. The car crushing incident was not the reason #11 was never moved to KRM. The reason #11 sat in Paris for so long was that Central KY NRHS just kept playing "it's our toy and you can't have it" for nearly 20 years. It had plenty of opportunity to go somewhere and be useful.

To my understanding at one time there was a very loose tentitive agreement to move everything to KRM and that the two coaches would be the first part with the small possibility #11 could follow. After the crushing incident Central KY NRHS clammed right back up and wouldn't answer anybodies calls again like they had for years before.

The only reason this move happened now was that Hinkle Equipment (whose truck yard #11 was sitting in the middle of) basically told them to move it or it's getting turned into razor blades. If it wasn't for that she'd still be sitting on the siding now.

But the past is the past. Even if she's just a pigeon roost at the moment, she'll be a painted pigeon roost we can get good pics of.


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Kentucky Central #11
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:49 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:19 am
Posts: 153
Location: Lexington, KY
The coaches in question could never have been used in any type of service, even if they had survived the move.


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