Pemberton Station Museum and Rail Trail
Sponsored by the Pemberton Township Historic Trust
Location: 3 Fort Dix Road Pemberton, NJ 08068
Address: PO Box 1647, Browns Mills, NJ 08015
Phone; 609-784-8721 Email: pthtrust@gmail.com
Federal Tax Exempt 501(c) (3) # DLN1705320303401022-3547710

Dear Friends:
The Pemberton Township Historic Trust (PTHT) has a valuable, historic railroad collection of two engines and ten cars that are priceless assets to Burlington County, the State of New Jersey and for that matter the rest of the country for the benefit of this and all future generations. It is of great historical significance that in the past these actual or similar cars either ran on the line from Camden to Hightstown or served Fort Dix, McGuire AFB and Roebling Steel.
The PTHT would like to save this collection that we have acquired through the efforts of our volunteers for the past 16 years by moving it to Mount Holly, NJ. where they would fit in perfectly with the already existing, Mill Race, Old Courthouse, Prison Museum, Library and Burlington County College and would without a doubt become a vital part of the revitalization of Mount Holly thus enticing businesses to relocate there resulting in increased revenue for the town through tourism.
We would place the cars on the existing tracks owned by Conrail but not currently being used which extends from Madison Avenue to the Mount Holly Bypass. We are hoping that you could assist us in any way possible either with our communications with Conrail or donations in order to save this track and preserve this valuable collection of historic train cars. The EPA has assisted us in the past with the acquisition of five of these train cars.
We have had to pay for legal representation for almost two years already through funds supplied by our own pockets and from loyal volunteers. More funds are urgently needed to relocate these cars and the RR Museum to Mount Holly as soon as possible because negotiations have run out and we have a deadline of April 1, 2013 to come up with a solution to relocate or the museum and cars will be lost forever. They need to be kept together. This would be a great loss to historic preservation and history. Please help us in any way possible or these historic pieces will be scrapped.
The collection is as follows:
1938 45 ton G.E. side rod engine from Roebling, 1904 flat car-arch bar trucks from Roebling, 1918 gondola from Roebling, 1923 10,000 gallon tank, Jersey Central Center Cupola Caboose from Medford, 1938 L.V. 50 ton Hopper Car from Roebling, 1942 N5C Pennsylvania RR Caboose from Conrail, 1914 N6B Center Cupola PRR Caboose, 1943 X23 Caboose was built from a 1914 box car during WWII (75 were built), 1938 Rail bus 18’ long used by Provost Marshalls at Fort Dix, 1960 G.E. Center Cab 100 ton Diesel Electric from Roebling, and a 1954 Box Car.
Thank you,
Mike Tamn,
PTHT: President

Have you considered maybe you can't save them all? Maybe the sale of a couple for scrap could pay for the movement of the others to a safe haven? Maybe you should be asking for anyone to come take them?

What I am reading is "

1. help us save this equipment, send money asap
2. we're not yet offering it to anyone else even though the axe falls in a week
3. we insist it stays local and intact as a collection even though the axe falls in a week
4. we're not parting with any of it through sale or gift in order to save individual pieces


Please let me know if I am reading into this incorrectly.

Seriously? Really? Just because they are "not being used" doesn't mean they are free for your use. They are private property.

Is there any space behind your house "not being used"? Because I have some stuff I would like to dump back there.

Wow back to the old 'rude' replies again after a couple of posts ! Maybe they have an agreement with Conrail to actually do this (what a stunning thought). Clearly some people dont want to help and that is up to them......hopefully you can get some beneficial replies. I know if i had to clear out stuff i had accumulated and tried to preserve and had a miserable township after me i would be heart broken...and mine are not on my own land either.

Mike Pannell

The replies are a little 'short' but not untrue. Let's look at the facts as the OP states it:

1)Got wonderful rail goodies that are completely significant
2)Got them in a spot that has put a deadline of 4-1-13 or they go for scrap
3)Got there eye on a sweet bit of track that as far as they know, is surplus
4)Asking for help to talk to the owners of the track
5)It's all or nothing, the collection will be completely irrelevant if it's not complete
6)Did I mention we got to do all this in 6 days, 2 of those are weekend days...
7)Maybe April Fools?

Tho I do offer an idea-some of the smaller stuff (Arch bar trucks, rail bus, caboose, gondola) isn't beyond the reach of being moved by something along the lines of a 1 ton truck and flatbed trailer, or a rollback wrecker, at least in parts-If I was close I'd come out with my truck and trailer and help. Maybe someone in your group has a Class A CDL and you can rent/beg/borrow a semi and RGN, the bigger equipment you can show up with, the better/faster you can move. Even if all you can move is the trucks off some of the equipment and other 'smaller' bits that will at least be progress, and it might BUY YOU TIME. And in the end, if everything can't be saved, it would be better IMHO to have as much as you can get before the locks get changed.

Immediately put your best 'ass kissers and fund raisers' on task of getting money and favors in place to move the two locos-there is no getting around that those will take big trucks, cranes, escorts, permits, mechanics, riggers, etc to move

the whole thing comes to this:
>quick<>cheap<>organized< <--pick any two.

Good luck!

A few thoughts:

It might be too late to stick to the notion that the collection must remain intact.

Communication is important. Message boards and social media can be used to get the word out but you have to be very clear. The first post created more than a few questions and there is no clarity. People are not going to throw money into a project unless their questions are answered.

Keep in mind that while they are a good relative collection that pieces of the collection can be relative to other museums.

Ed, you should contact the base PR folks. They may be able to get you in contact with one of the Heavy Recovery Squadrons, Army, and see if they want to do some "training" on recovery and hauling heavy equipment. I'm not saying they will do it but with this it could be used as training for them and you get what you need.

This is beyond ridiculous. Apparently with only a few days before the deadline, the Pemberton group is looking for help in negotiating with Conrail to acquire some trackage? Has Conrail even been approached yet? Is the trackage actually for sale? What trackage is it? Are there any estimated costs yet for the acquisition and then movement of the rolling stock?


Out of that list of equipment, I don't see much that isn't already a duplicate of other equipment in existence elsewhere. There are plenty of GE center cabs and PRR cabin cars around already. If you cut it up yourself that 100 tonner will net you $15,000, enough to move a couple of the rarer pieces of equipment elsewhere.

But no they won't do that. In the end everything will be lost.

Mike,

What will happen if the 4/1 deadline passes without a solution to relocate? People who might want to help will want to know if they only have until 4/1 to finalize their help, or if there is any additional margin.

If the deadline is absoutely 4/1, it seems too late to launch a rescue of even small pieces. So the only immediate remedy might be to negotiate further to buy time for a public sale, or even for time to move the equipment if somebody agreed to purchase before the 4/1 deadline.

This is a textbook case of what not to do in preservation.

It it's not as if the writing hasn't been on the wall (or newspapers, web, etc.) for some time now. If this group were at all serious, they should have been approaching museums and other groups near and far- better the collection be dispersed than cut up, but no, it "must" stay in one piece, all the way to the melting pot.

Guys, get serious and arrange donation of as much as possible to other groups- and pray that they can negotiate a bit of breathing room to enable the moves. At this stage, better to sacrifice some to enable survival of the most important stuff.

I'm not usually this callous and unsympathetic, but you have had plenty of notice to make arrangements and get everything out of harm's way. Hopefully some of it will survive.

Steve Hunter

Not to offend Mike in Cheyanne, but the assumptions of the original post are so farcical that I have to doubt its veracity.

Folks, it may be too soon to jump to conclusions. We've heard very little from this group in a year, we have no idea what has happened behind the scenes, nor what may have been done by other actors.

RE: "Ed, you should contact the base PR folks. They may be able to get you in contact with one of the Heavy Recovery Squadrons, Army, and see if they want to do some "training" on recovery and hauling heavy equipment."

Don't bet on it. Military organizations work on budgets as well, theirs are getting tighter, and this sort of thing would cost them a big chunk of money. They also don't need to pick up and transport derelict pieces of railway equipment as "training" (training for what exactly?) because their actual mission training requirements are already spelled out in detail. If anything, this would be a distraction from what they really need to focus on.

Assuming there is a capable unit nearby with extra time and money on its hands and it's perfectly willing to do it (fat chance), the unit would not be able to drop its current activities and rapidly spring into action on behalf of a non-governmental organization without this being approved many months in advance at high levels. Getting this done prior to Monday (1 April) is just not possible.

Now with pictures!

http://goo.gl/maps/xtrQx

and 'the rest of the story'!

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/burlington_county_times_news/pemberton-trains-to-be-auctioned-monday/article_553d3256-7e3f-5932-9086-0b4d3a2035f9.html

I find it absolutely unbelievable that this organization is under the gun of an auction in less than a week and they are publishing things that say stipulate the collection must remain intact and not saying "help, help come take whatever you can ASAP, bring trucks and roll out of here as fast as you can". I can't help but draw a mental picture of how the talks went and how the organization got to this point.