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Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland Yard
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34842		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  bedt14 [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland Yard
Greetings all!

Need some assistance please:

I caught this passenger car being set out of CP #255 at Welland Yard, Ontario, Canada on 4/3/2013:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiv ... x?id=90021

It was pretty well shrinkwrapped, blocked and chained to ITTX 965629 (flatcar) with bulkhead flats front & rear (for I assume protection). Trucks were not with the car or elsewhere in consist as far as I can see.

The steps were removed/missing, and I was able to poke my head up into the vestibule on one end, which oddly, is painted yellow. There was a hole in the shrinkwrap at that end in the vestibule doorway, so I was also able to take a shot of the interior.

I took notice that the interior of the car has a vaulted clerestory ceiling, and judging from the ornateness and the wood paneling, appears to be more than just a passenger car, and more in the way of a business or parlor car. Outside of the car has tongue & groove wood slat sides.

The only markings I can find were "XA 564" on the frame and the weight: 113300

I posted my images on rrpicturearchives, and received only one reply from Leighton Haeseler: "This car and load was photographed at Plainfield, CT on 2/13/2013 and can be viewed in my album 'ITTX equipment in CT'. Origin and destination unknown."

So, apparently it's been in transit for some time. And with that, that is all I know so far.

So can anyone out there provide ANY information for this car? (From where, to whom, heritage, builder, et al). This info would be greatly welcomed!

Thanks in advance to all!

Phil
Author:  car57 [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland
Could it be this UP car in the thread here from a few days ago ?



viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34795

Mike Pannell
Author:  Howard P. [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland
It's a Central Vermont coach; "XA" on the side sill (shown in one of the linked photos) is St Albans, Vt (CV's shop town). This car was stored in Rhode Island for many years, for sale.

Howard P.
Author:  etalcos [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland
car57 wrote:
Could it be this UP car in the thread here from a few days ago ?



viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34795

Mike Pannell


All wood with truss rods built in 1926??? I'd never say never, but seems unlikely.

I wondered about the CV dining car from Rhode Island thats been for sale for a while...
Author:  car57 [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland
Didnt read the post closely, but the car is Yellow and that seemed to fit, and of course siding was made to look like wood for several years too.

Mike
Author:  bedt14 [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland
@ Howard: Well, if pictures don't lie, it's ex-CV 382. Thanks for the lead!

(How ironic that is the number of the ICRR locomotive that Casey rode to promised land!)

The Moffat Road Railroad Museum has a nice page on it's relocation and anticipate relocation:

http://www.moffatroadrailroadmuseum.org/projectcar.html

Also, I found a previous thread on the 382 here in RyPN as well:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29327

Now the only thing that does not jive, is the Moffat Road page says:

Quote:
"The coach left Rhode Island Sea View Rail Yard via the Providence & Worcester RR on Monday, heading to Providence; then switches to the CSX RR to St. Louis; then switches to Union Pacific RR to Omaha; then to Denver and finally to Granby. We are looking at the end of June for its arrival in Granby."

I took my images on Canadian Pacific territory in Welland, Canada! What the heck is the car doing up there? Why go through Canada??

@ Mike: What I saw, was indubitably a wood sided car. I examined the tongue & groove up close. Most definitely not pressed steel. And only the vestibule interior was yellow. The wood exposed on the outside had no color (just bare wood) and the car interior was natural wood tones from what I could see. But thanks for the suggestion.. Better to judge by process of elimination!

And I do owe all you guys a great big thanks!

If you hear any further on this car's destination or why it's in Canada, please let me know...
Author:  car57 [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland
Great to know its on the move even if USPS got the zipcode wrong and it gets sent to Canada.

Mike
Author:  bedt14 [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland
Too funny Mike!

But it might get right where it has to go anyhow. I hear Canada Post ain't much better!
Author:  JimBoylan [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland
CSX's Pere Marquette RR runs through Southern Canada between New York State and Michigan, but I think that they pay Canadian roads to haul the traffic for them.
Author:  k5ahudson [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland
bedt14 wrote:
If you hear any further on this car's destination or why it's in Canada, please let me know...

If CP is the one that is moving it and its finally destination is Colorado, I assume it is probably going to Chicago, then transfer to the UP. CP does not go south of Lake Erie, so cutting through Canada via Buffalo and Detroit is the only option.
Author:  Termite7 [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland
Goodness...trespassing on private property...climbing on equipment...putting yourself in danger. Sticking your nose where it does not belong. Shocking behaviour. Are you the one that sprayed the grafiti inside the car? Did you shoot some heroin while in the car? You certainly implicated yourself by publishing these photos. If you would trespass...no telling what else you may have done.

If this had been an unaccompanied PV would you kick the door in and helped yourself to the light fixtures...all in the name of "saving them"? I assume that car is still in transit...you think some kids might now be looking for it? Looking for a place to set a fire or turn into a flop house?

And let this be a lesson to others...how would you feel if it was your equipment that somebody tresspassed on? I imagine you would be saying "those darned kids...they should be thrown under the jail"!!!

I think you should call CP security and turn yourself in. In the US this could lead to a serious charge...criminal trespassing. Furthermore...I would like to see the moderators remove this post and ban the poster for inproper use of this forum.

Give a hoot...keep off of private property!!!

T7
Author:  Zak Lybrand [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland
Termite7 wrote:
Goodness...trespassing on private property...climbing on equipment...putting yourself in danger. Sticking your nose where it does not belong. Shocking behaviour.


I'm glad I'm not the only one that saw a problem with these actions.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland
I saw a problem with the actions, but I'm going to give a slight benefit of the doubt. For all we know, he's a railroad employee, or someone that at least had authorization to be in this yard. I've taken photos like this, been accused of "Trespassing!!", and was able to immediately respond "on the property with release, railroad permission, on railroad business, the siding was blue-flagged, and the car knockers were a few cars away..." And, of course, in the "right" places in the "right" yards far enough away from division HQs that they operate like their own little short line, you'll get away with just about anything even if it's not legal, as long as you don't "publicize" it in this fashion. It might be safe for me to publish those photos I took by climbing the coaling and water towers in that one yard in Pa. by now.....

But this report raises an interesting question: If the dates and reports are to be believed as presented, this blankety-blank ITTX car has been sitting with this blankety-blank CV car on it for TEN MONTHS. (Option 2: It was returned to be re-loaded, and that reload took months.) And I understand that cheap freight rates sometimes means absurdly wacky car routings, but this is reminding me of the passenger car (on its own wheels) that was being shipped from Chicago to Nevada and turned up in Montreal......

What's the background behind 1) the delay/return and 2) going from Connecticut to Colorado by way of Ontario?? Any lessons to be learned by the rest of us here?
Author:  bedt14 [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland
Well, I didn't think I needed to state the obvious..

"or someone that at least had authorization to be in this yard." Yes a CP employee. Several in fact.

How about that: A railfan -asks- permission to be on property and photograph.
-AND- gets that permission. -Asks- employees for information instead of speculates.

And for the record, I was wearing safety vest, steel toe boots, gloves, and my polycarbonate prescription glasses. Ok, I didn't have a hard hat. My standard gear. I was also wearing my ID around my neck. What else? Hire the Good Year blimp to hover over my head that says "has permission"

And I resent the implication that I would deface vintage railroad property. That is vandalism sir, especially as I have in the past and continue to be involved in railroad equipment restoration. Your suggestion even in jest, is not appropriate.

I thank you for making such a simple question, looking for information on something I saw; and turned into a suspicious terroristic-like vandalism activity. Now I know why most railfans are treated with such disdain.

Like I said, I had permission.

Have a nice day gentleman. I won't take up any of your time any further.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unknown pass/business/parlor car in transit: CP Welland
"Termite7" does not speak for all of us at RyPN. His post was a level of arrogant presumption we seldom see here, and a good argument against pseudonymous postings.

You might have "headed off" such a confrontation by remarking in the first place when you posted the photos, "Photos taken on railroad property with permission." That's pretty much the standard disclaimer we see on rail photo websites these days as applicable. The other clever cover story is "I got these photos from someone else the other day...." These are, if you'll pardon me, not photos that will get printed out and hung in an art gallery, printed in a for-profit rail magazine, or collected and sold as a CD on eBay without your permission; thus the issue of photo credit is less than the issue of answering your query.
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