Railway Preservation News :: View topic - Bittern to run high speed railtours

http://heritagerailway.co.uk/news/bittern-to-head-three-90mph-main-line-trips
Just a brief exerpt from the article:

Quote:

Marking the 75th anniversary of sister A4 streamlined Pacific No. 4468 Mallard’s world record steam run, No. 4464 Bittern has been given special dispensation by Network Rail to run three trips at 90mph over the East Coast Main Line.[/quote]
So... When's the last time that an excursion in the US hit 90mph? Oh, that's right. Never! I wonder if Mr. Hosking will rebrand Bittern as another one of the A4s ( locomotive for one of these trips... Maybe an imposter for Mallard is in the cards, so to speak?

The fastest I personally clocked was behind #611 on the Southern mainline was just at 90mph. There's one quite legendary evening run of #759 across the Lackawanna Cut-Off which perhaps only Ross knows the true speed of.
Other excursion steam trips have gone that fast, but their crews are not apt to discuss it on public message boards.

August 29, 1976. On the Southern Railway's welded speed raceway between Culpepper and Manassas, Va., the big oil-burning Lima 4-8-4 took a 1425-ton excursion train in hand and surged up to 79.5 mph, if not a full 80.

It can be said quietly that each operating 4-8-4, with one exception, has exceeded 90 MPH in current operations. I was on board during one particular instance and the evidence was ....ahem.....disposed of and the crew sworn to secrecy....

Txhighballer wrote:

It can be said.

That doesn't make it one bit true, however.

Author:	daylight4449 [ Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:11 am ]
Post subject:	Bittern to run high speed railtours
http://heritagerailway.co.uk/news/bitte ... line-trips Just a brief exerpt from the article: [quote]Marking the 75th anniversary of sister A4 streamlined Pacific No. 4468 Mallard’s world record steam run, No. 4464 Bittern has been given special dispensation by Network Rail to run three trips at 90mph over the East Coast Main Line.[/quote] So... When's the last time that an excursion in the US hit 90mph? Oh, that's right. Never! I wonder if Mr. Hosking will rebrand Bittern as another one of the A4s ( locomotive for one of these trips... Maybe an imposter for Mallard is in the cards, so to speak?

Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bittern to run high speed railtours
There were reports/rumors/allegations of a couple high-speed "making up lost time" runs with steam in the "end of steam" days with the likes of CB&Q 5632, UP 8444, GTW 6323, etc., most likely on the CB&Q "racetrack" between Galesburg and Chicago, and also with GTW steam. I have estimated some speeds on recordings from the late 1950s/early 1960s from the apparent RPMs of the steam loco, the clickety-clacks of wheels on coaches, etc. and confirmed speeds in the high seventies at least. What is perhaps more notable about this British news is that it's not really news of any consequence. Main line steam excursions in the UK have long run at "track speed" just like any other train; I personally rode behind LNER V2 2-6-2 Green Arrow, LNER 60009 Union of South Africa (disguised for a month as 60027 Merlin), and LMS 46229 Duchess of Hamilton on the North Wales Coast Line at speeds slightly in excess of 80 mph in 1991, and the folks whose obsessive-compulsive hobby is timing the performance of steam on such runs didn't even bat an eye at such speeds. I believe the only issue for Bittern is the official approval for her to be opened up to such a speed, probably having something to do with the fitting of AWS/automatic train stop/whatever the heck they use or call it these days on Network Rail. Another actual issue is that the East Coast Main Line is now electrified, and originally during ECML electrification (and going much further back into BR days as well) there were issues with the clearance of A4 Pacifics and a couple other larger locos with the overhead in tunnels, stations, and other close loading gauge quarters; I believe 25+ years' worth of experience with this issue have improved the issue significantly.

Author:	robertjohndavis [ Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bittern to run high speed railtours
daylight4449 wrote: http://heritagerailway.co.uk/news/bittern-to-head-three-90mph-main-line-trips Just a brief exerpt from the article: Quote: Marking the 75th anniversary of sister A4 streamlined Pacific No. 4468 Mallard’s world record steam run, No. 4464 Bittern has been given special dispensation by Network Rail to run three trips at 90mph over the East Coast Main Line.[/quote] So... When's the last time that an excursion in the US hit 90mph? Oh, that's right. Never! I wonder if Mr. Hosking will rebrand Bittern as another one of the A4s ( locomotive for one of these trips... Maybe an imposter for Mallard is in the cards, so to speak? Me thinks you are well mistaken about US excursions clipping 90 mph. They may not have been advertised as such, but they sure as hell did. The fastest I personally clocked was behind #611 on the Southern mainline was just at 90mph. There's one quite legendary evening run of #759 across the Lackawanna Cut-Off which perhaps only Ross knows the true speed of. Other excursion steam trips have gone that fast, but their crews are not apt to discuss it on public message boards.

Author:	DuesyJ29 [ Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Bittern to run high speed railtours
Quick question, is the speed south of Los Angeles to San Diego where the San Diegan trains run still 90 miles an hour? I know that the 3751 has been on that rip in the last few years. If so, wouldn't she have been cleared for track speed, and done it probably? Mike S.

Author:	Mark Z. Yerkes [ Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bittern to run high speed railtours
I've heard stories of Ross taking 614 over 90 on the Erie Limited trips between New York and Port Jervis. Don't know if there's any truth to them, but if any engine could pull it off, it'd be that one.

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Author:	Frisco1522 [ Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bittern to run high speed railtours
I've heard rumors that in the quiet of the night, the elders gather around the campfire and speak reverently about one alleged "Old Timer's" special on the UP with 844 that perhaps there was some fast running. The speak in hushed tones, but I believe the myth.

Author:	robertmacdowell [ Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bittern to run high speed railtours
If we want to do that, we'll need to OWN it. Or have a "special relationship" with them that do. Here, I'll remind you that the State of Michigan owns the Ann Arb-- oh wait, stop the press. The State of Michigan owns the Michigan Central east of Kalamazoo. Now, as far as the FRA. If the operation is in the general system, all those rules will apply, and that's that. They aren't going to make up a bunch of special extra rules just to impede. If it's NOT in the general system, FRA will do what it always does -- inspect to see if you're doing anything stupid enough to justify issuing an Emergency Order. That is the crux of its E.O. authority as discussed in 49 CFR 209. Obviously if you're going 125mph, they're going to want to see appropriately more diligence. You won't need to do the exact Amtrak, FRA or SNCF procedure, but you'll need to be doing stuff that's sensibly in the ballpark. And you'll need to be able to hold your end of the conversation as to why. They will certainly not require of non-general-system roads more than they require of general-system roads. The apocryphal example is, code says to either hydro or drill your reservoirs. It's OK to ultrasound them instead. The fact is, computers, radio data networks, borescopes, strain gages, all sorts of modern stuff change the game. I foresee a day when you stick strain sensors in each bearing seat, feed it into a computer, the computer sits there listening to your wheels and bearings, doing a baseline calibration on what is normal for your equipment, and then blows an alarm when something occurs which is abnormal. That would have prevented an accident like Eschede. And that sort of thing reducing the need for physical inspections even on performance equipment.

Author:	wesp [ Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bittern to run high speed railtours
There is legend that SP/AFT 4449 was running at a fast clip on the Charlottesville - Alexandria AFT ferry move in 1976. Wesley

Author:	p51 [ Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bittern to run high speed railtours
robertjohndavis wrote: The fastest I personally clocked was behind #611 on the Southern mainline was just at 90mph. There's one quite legendary evening run of #759 across the Lackawanna Cut-Off which perhaps only Ross knows the true speed of. Other excursion steam trips have gone that fast, but their crews are not apt to discuss it on public message boards. I've talked with someone in the cab of 4449 on it's run from Irondale to meet the Freedom Train to pick up from AFT # 1 (also known as RDG 2101), and he told me that the GS-4 got to 90 at one point.

Author:	JimBoylan [ Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bittern to run high speed railtours
Ross Rowland has previously discussed details of the installation of Automatic Train Stop equipment on C&O 614, so it meets F.R.A. regulations for some speeds higher than 79 m.p.h. How fast did the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania trips on the Harrisburg line run with their Cab Signal equipped steam locos?

Author:	Trevor Heath [ Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bittern to run high speed railtours
I think this video epitomizes high speed running in the UK. Every time I watch it, I'm amazed at the smooth running with the guy standing on the footplate looking at the gauges and the fire like he is standing in the living room looking at a fireplace and the clock on the wall.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY87_flBpFg TH

Author:	Txhighballer [ Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bittern to run high speed railtours
It can be said quietly that each operating 4-8-4, with one exception, has exceeded 90 MPH in current operations. I was on board during one particular instance and the evidence was ....ahem.....disposed of and the crew sworn to secrecy....

Author:	Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bittern to run high speed railtours
Txhighballer wrote: It can be said quietly that each operating 4-8-4, with one exception, has exceeded 90 MPH in current operations. I was on board during one particular instance and the evidence was ....ahem.....disposed of and the crew sworn to secrecy.... It can be said. That doesn't make it one bit true, however.

Author:	robertjohndavis [ Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Bittern to run high speed railtours
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: Txhighballer wrote: It can be said quietly that each operating 4-8-4, with one exception, has exceeded 90 MPH in current operations. I was on board during one particular instance and the evidence was ....ahem.....disposed of and the crew sworn to secrecy.... It can be said. That doesn't make it one bit true, however. You're not going to see billboards with flashing lights talking about this. I know the three times I am sure I did better than 80 mph behind a 4-8-4 and I know two of the three engineers. I would guess 90 was flirted with on two of those trips, but only reached once. Of course, in today's litigious society I am sure these are yet more memories the lawyers will keep in the past.

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