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The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
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Author:  Kelly Anderson [ Fri May 10, 2013 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
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Author:  buzz_morris [ Fri May 10, 2013 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
I find the linseed oil paint interesting. We have been experimenting with a home mixed deck stain of linseed oil/mineral spirits.
Did you mix this yourselves or can you mention a product name used?
Author:  Brendan Zeigler [ Fri May 10, 2013 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Buzz,

We are using commercially available products, althought none of them are currently produced domestically. Linseed oil has a huge variety of applications, but be carefull about buying off the shelf products at your hardware store. "Boiled Linseed Oil" as most know it is not really boiled at all. True boiled linseed oil is hard to come by and expensive, but well worth the investment. If you are interested in more info, PM me.
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Fri May 10, 2013 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Bravo. Good to see traditional materials still used. Linseed oil, with its inherent flexibility, should do really well on a wood car.

Now let me tell my sorry linseed oil story...

I was always a proponent of NOT adding after market materials, extenders, brushing agents, etc. to commercial paints, on the theory that the paint is an engineered system, and we really don't know what effect the "miracle agent" will have over the long haul. I admittedly haven't done any restoration painting over the last couple decades, just the as needed maintenance on a wood house, but even from that vantage point, I could see the quality of paint products spiraling ever downward. The last straw came when painting a garage door with some Sherwin Williams gloss trim paint a couple years ago; it was like brushing rubber bands, and looked like I had painted it with a rake. I finally decided that since the number one criteria for paints was now environmental concerns, with suitability for purpose a distant second, I couldn't possibly make things any worse, so grabbed a can of Sunnyside "boiled" linseed oil, and added a dollop to the paint, which instantly improved its workability. I liked it so much, I started adding it to the Olympic oil stain, too.

Well, I was wrong... things could get worse. In two years everything I painted with the
linseed oil mix started to turn black. It seems that when linseed oil paints were common, so was white lead and other metal oxide pigments that are deadly to most organisms. Today's environmentally friendly paint, however, is also mildew friendly, and linseed oil is good food for mildew. The trace amounts of mildewcide in modern paint was not enough to protect the additional organic material of the added oil. This last repaint required washing the whole house with mildew remover.

It may be that properly prepared boiled linseed oil is mildew resistant... as I was researching possible solutions for the mildew problem, I found some that claimed that "...all others will turn black, but ours magically doesn't...", without a lot of explanation as to why. I hope this doesn't prove to be a problem on car 60, and would be curious to know what was done to prevent it.
Author:  wilkinsd [ Fri May 10, 2013 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Kelly,

What kind of material do you use for upholstery? It looks like the old-fashioned "plush" fabric that covered many a walkover seat.

David
Author:  Mgoldman [ Fri May 10, 2013 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Latest and greatest!

Mighty impressive work and modern day history in the making.

If you had your own Discover Channel show, I'd watch every
week. Thanks for an insider's view!

/Mitch
Author:  superheater [ Sat May 11, 2013 2:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
What is a "VOC"?
Author:  Mgoldman [ Sat May 11, 2013 2:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
superheater wrote:
What is a "VOC"?


Volatile Organic Compound

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/voc.html

"Volatile organic compounds (VOCs) are emitted as gases from certain solids or liquids. VOCs include a variety of chemicals, some of which may have short- and long-term adverse health effects"

We use to manufacture and sell an awesome yet inexpensive tire dressing until new stringent EPA rules came into effect.

Now we manufacture and sell a pretty good though extremely expensive tire dressing.

Odd how the best ingredients tend to be the most regulated and /or dangerous. Course, even storm water is now a hazmat....

/Mitch
Author:  Zak Lybrand [ Sat May 11, 2013 3:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Kelly, my applause to you and your crew! I'm friends with young Mr. Deevy in your shop, and I'm green with envy of the experience he's getting!
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Sat May 11, 2013 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
superheater wrote:
What is a "VOC"?


Volatile Organic Compound. Basically, solvents that get into the air by way of evaporation. One of the reasons for the big push to turn all consumer grade paints to water borne acrylics is the solvent that makes them workable for either brush or spray is only water, not some long organic molecule.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Sat May 11, 2013 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
That Strasburg combine is perhaps, the most beautiful railroad car restoration I've ever seen. Once again, is there nothing you guys can not do?
BTW, what is the heritage of the original car?
Author:  fkrock [ Sat May 11, 2013 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
I have had good results with Awl Grip paints and epoxy primer. They are very expensive. Some colors cost around $200 per gallon. Be sure to find a dealer who will sell them for wholesale price.

Awl Grip enamel is a two-part polyurethane paint. It is sold primarily to the boat industry. It can be sprayed or brush applied. It does not dry brittle hard so it will handle the expansion and contraction of wood in a marine environment. Awl Grip sells a slow speed reducer for brush painting.

Awl Grip will do computer color matching so you can get exactly the precise shade of coach green you need.

Back when I owned a wooden boat, I used copper napthenate preservative on raw wood. That's something else hard to find today. If that boat had burned, it would have had a green flame. I never had any rot problems with it.
Author:  Brian Norden [ Sat May 11, 2013 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Mgoldman wrote:
Course, even storm water is now a hazmat....
What is good for us can be made for something else in our environment.

I work for a domestic, investor-owned water company and we treat our well water with chlorine which is a typical and approved way of getting rid of bacteria that may be in the water. Also when a new main is installed it is disinfected with a super charge of chlorinated water.

Now, when we flush out this new water main or do a fire hydrant test flow we have to cause the water to flow over (or through) a sack (or blanket) with another chemical to neutralize (or remove) the chlorine before it goes into the storm water drainage system.
Author:  Kelly Anderson [ Mon May 13, 2013 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
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Author:  Brendan Zeigler [ Mon May 13, 2013 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Latest From the Strasburg Rail Road Shops
Dennis,

Thanks for sharing your story. I think we have a number of variables working in our favor and will be conducting a few additional experiments to address potential mildew issues.

First off, the "boiled" linseed oil that Sunnyside and other manufacturers sell is not actually boiled at all. This is a critical variable. Boiling linseed oil alters the molecular make-up of the oil. After boiling, exposure to atmosphere will actually cause the boiled oil to harden in a short time, creating a very resilient surface. "Boiled Linseed Oil" that you get at the hardware store is actually raw oil that has had solvents and chemical driers added to simulate some of the properties of boiled oil at a fraction of the cost. However, this oil never truly dries and is a poor substitute for the real thing. I learned this lesson in tinkering with hobby paint projects where I mixed my own paint. I have one item that I painted with a mixture made from sunnyside products and after about 10 years it still is a tacky film that easily rubs off. All of the linseed oil paints we are using are made from real boiled oil and utilize solid and mostly natural pigments. It truly is made the old fashioned way and because of that there is a significant cost to the product. One of the best advantages beyond actual performance is the fact that we are using historic products on historic cars and, because they have substituted zinc and/or titanium oxide in place of the once common lead oxides, they have virtually zero health risks compared to even the most mundane modern coatings. The unpigmented boiled linseed oil is actually a food grade product and can be used to coat cutting boards, butcher blocks and contertops.

Regarding the mildew issue, real boiled oil based paint have some susceptability to this but due to their final hardness are much more resistant than raw oil substitutes. Additionaly, the white pigment zinc oxide is an outstanding mindewcide. The manufacture produces a white paint pigmented entirely with zinc oxide that the recommend cutting into other colors if the paint is going to be applied in a high moisture area that may be prone to mildew. We intend to try this on a small shed that was recently constructed in our freight yard to see whether or not the results are as advertised.

As we know more about how this stuff holds up and performs in our specific application I am sure we will be sharing what we discover.
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