So I have been looking at ways to raise money for awhile, I don't expect the minute I put a PayPal donation button on our website that donations will be flooding in and solve our problems, but apparently I can't do that according to http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/ ... 33598.html In order to start raising money the organization has to register in 40 different states with different regulations. In fact since we are still not even a 501c(3) I don't know if we can fill out this paper work. I have been doing everything I can to save these historic locomotives and now I find myself at another road block, any help would be really appreciated.

-Rowan C. de la Barre

I do hate to mention this, but people have been telling your for literally years that the first thing you should do/should have done was get 501c3 status. Every time that this has been suggested you have indicated that you know better. And it is clear that you have not yet achieved 501c3 status.

So what is your question? The answer is get your 501c3 done. Then worry about fund raising.

Now that the price is $400 I intend to get it done although I might need a little help. But even after my 501c3 it looks like in order to solicit donations even just to have a donate button on the website I will have to go through and do sepreat registration for 40 states.

I am not a lawyer, but unless you are physically soliciting donations in a state (mailings, door to door, etc.) I would think you would have to only be registered in your home state if required.

-Hudson

"unless you are physically soliciting donations in a state (mailings, door to door, etc.) I would think you would have to only be registered in your home state if required."

You would incorporate in one state, but still might need to obtain a certificate of authority or register with the state's charitable bureau to legally operate in another state.

That having been said, I'm not sure having an internet site that can be viewed means you are conducting business in a state.

Consult an attorney, and if you can't afford one, see if you can get pro bono services.

We have a couple lawyers on the board, perhaps they'll comment.

Rowan, let me dig up his contact info, but Art Krauss at Worcester State University might be able to answer some of your questions in regards to 501c(3) and whatnot. I'll PM you the contact info once I dig it up.

Like Mr. Bailey, I've offered my advice in the past to this poster. He doesn't seem to want to listen to anyone, so I've concluded that I no longer have anything of value to add.

I will say that he should get his 501c3 figured out before he worries about soliciting donations.

Quoting from the link provided in the first post of this thread:


Once again, we have much ado about nothing.

Jeff

You do realize that takes awhile once you've filed. 6 months if you're very boring. If not, longer.


No, you haven't. You haven't done jack. You have just stayed within your comfort zone, haven't really challenged yourself at all. You've refused to learn anything, refused to deflate your ego... and for lack of any other ideas, you just think you can dream your way to success. Ain't gonna happen.

Learn to love the things that are essential for your enterprise to succeed. Stop thinking of it as undesirable homework. Get to it.

Your first assignment: Hit the library for a book on corporations. Like
this or this or this.

Here's your test. You can
- Find other companies' articles of incorporation in the state database
- name the mailing address and filing fee to establish a corporation in your state
- be able to rattle off the difference between a partnership, limited partnership, LLC, S-corp and C-corporation...

and then you're ready for step 2.

Step 2, learn to form a nonprofit. A good guide on that is this here.

You will know;
- The difference between organization on a Board basis or Member basis, and when to use each one.
- Where to find your state's nonprofit law.
- The special magic things you write into your articles of incorporation that makes you a nonprofit.
- The special magic things you put in your Bylaws to make you a nonprofit.
- The basics of writing a Nonprofit Application (form 1023).
- A pretty good first draft of yours.


And when you're done hitting the books, come on back and show it.
Lay out your draft Articles, draft Bylaws and draft 1023. We'll all take a look.

Oh, one other thing. File your 1023 right after you incorporate. Waiting means that fiscal years are ticking by, and you have to report those fiscal years to the IRS, which requires explanation. And that explanation gets your application flagged, which can add a year or more to your certification. One strategy is to abandon your existing corporation and form another and start over with it. A couple hundred bucks but cheap insurance.


Revisit the prices. I believe the cost of an F40PH will push you over the limit and require you to pay the full $850. Don't try to pull one over on the IRS.


That's a non-issue. Don't worry about it. I'll go into the gory details (as to why it is a non-issue) once you've done the other stuff. Right now the explanation would go right over your head.


I say he can get on Kickstarter right now and start fundraising, because they don't care if you're 501c3, they have no interest in a role as a sponsoring organization. Of course donors will have no surety that he'll become 501c3 (at his rate) and not even any surety that he'll spend the money wisely.

All links are affiliate.

Robert, do I need to remind everyone here on how difficult it can be to get a non-profit off the ground? Not only is there the monitary cost, there's the physical and emotional investment. I don't blame Rowan for taking the smallest of steps. So it drives some of us crazy to see that (from the perspective of some of us) Rowan isn't taking these words of wisdom. I think that he is, but with the few others working with him, it can be damn near impossible to use the methods that have been presented in what we all view as a reasonable amount of time. I would like to ask if anyone here has offered help, not in the form of advice, but physical assistance. You know, go to board meetings, discuss stratagem, etc. If not, tell me the where and when and I'll be glad to help.

Dylan,

RCD hasn't taken ANY STEPS, which is a far cry of taking even "the smallest steps." It'd be different if he asked for help on top of the advice, but he doesn't. He pops up every 3-4 months here asking about step 10 of the process when he hasn't even considered or undertaken steps 1-9 yet. He gets frustrated, retreats only to appear a few months later asking about step 11. It'd be different if he actually had a 501c3 in process, or needed some advice on what to do while it was pending, etc. instead, he just keeps rehashing the same stuff over and over, not willing to listen or even expand upon the comments. He cannot constructively engage the board. Frankly I think he just expects MBTA to drop an F40PH off at Shelburne falls one day without work.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting a different result.

Or, you can just start raising money without being a nonprofit.

dave

Another step is that you can enlist the assistance, and more importantly the outright cooperation, of prospective partners. Not just people willing to pledge money or help set up a non-profit or open a bank account, but logistics as well.

Your mission needs to be to save a representative F40PH or two/three/etc., with a long-range plan for its future and potential operation if warranted--parts, money, and places to run. The mission is NOT to have one put in your backyard to play with. That's been done/taken care of by Chris Fussell. <;-)

When the Deltic Preservation Society was set up in the U.K. in 1978 with the hopes of saving one locomotive, they sought, and eventually found, more than one excursion/heritage line willing to host a "celebrity" diesel loco long-term (that wasn't that easy--it was like trying to save an Alco PA just after steam died, when railfans still resented those newfangled upstarts that replaced the record-holding LNER A4's), with track space and a lease-by-the-day arrangement. They eventually settled on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, but a second Deltic (yes, we got two, and ended up with a third) was also eventually used by the Great Central Railway. NYMR gave us siding space and a place to park a support coach and set down storage containers full of parts and tools. Both lines also gave the locos a chance to operate, garnering good PR and "income" for both the railroad and the DPS. We've now owned and operated those locos longer than British Rail has, though not as many miles or engine hours as BR did, and have our own depot/shops at Barrow Hill.

If I were approaching this idea as a prospective board member (pleasedon'tmakemedothis pleasedon'tmakemedothis pleasedon'tmakemedothis.....), I would approach a party already owning, operating, and/or willing to use F40PH's and ask if they would be willing to work with someone with the long-range goal of saving one or two for preservation, and mold the requirements for the Society accordingly, almost like a "Friends of the F40PH/Museum" group. Now, MBTA is not in the preservation business, but stranger things have happened (like a PCC in a Philadelphia basement, thanks to SEPTA).....

Who else? Why, the Grand Canyon Railway. They have money, they're a for-profit operation, they have incentive, and they do care about rail history.

And as it turns out, I'm going out there in July........ and I might be able to talk to some folks. Simply exploratory inquiries as to whether they would be willing to work long-term with preservationists might be in order. (And if any of you GCRY employees are reading this, please PM or e-mail me before I have to hunt you down.)

Who else? Doesn't Iowa Pacific own some? Iowa Interstate? Someone with Rock Island painted football-special F40's?

Let's ask: Is your mission to get your favorite MBTA F40PH sent to Shelburne Falls? Or is your mission to preserve one or more F40PH's besides the three Amtrak ones officially preserved so far, and if so, to what ends? I feel this mission can work if you're willing to look past the first goal and reach for the second--far more prospective co-workers, donors, etc.

Dave, Robert and Sandy:

All excellent advice that probably won't be listened to or followed.

You're telling me? :)


About $20 to register the corporation. About that again every year for annual renewals. $850 user fee, one single time, to get IRS to read your application for nonprofit status. $120/year if you want to pay a Registered Agent to be open 9-5 to accept lawsuits for you, another option there is don't get sued, I recommend the second one.


Only if you buy an old pallet company :)


Consider the following modern TV shows: Jersey Shore, Real Housewives, Dallas, 90210, 2-1/2 Men, Big Bang Theory, Dangerous Minds, and CSI (all but Vegas). Those are the shows you won't be watching for 2 months because you are spending that time to read up on corporations and nonprofits and do your paperwork. J.R. "dies", gets facial surgery and comes back looking like Christopher Walken, the blonde cheats, Charlie Sheen is still gone, Sheldon doesn't get any, they catch a buncha bad guys, and Moriarty [removed by RyPN admin]. There you're caught up, plus you have a nonprofit.

The only thing about it is, it's scary because it's novel to you.

That part will happen pretty definitely, unless he happens to acquire a rail line.

As for helping him I respectfully suggest that Stewartstown would have a greater multiplying factor in terms of investment of your time.


None he's told us about. Since I've not told this group much about my corporate-structure activity, I have no reason to think he has. Besides, he's not my only audience.

I'm surprised nobody's squabbled with my claim that you can do online fundraising without registering in other states.