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Altoona Museum
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35189		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  1361prr [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Altoona Museum
Does anyone have any reliable information as to what is happening at the ARMM, including roundhouse completion, K-4 restoration, etc.?
Author:  Chris Webster [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Altoona Museum
In your earlier (Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:26 pm) post in the other thread, you said:

1361prr wrote:
So far, the taxpayers of PA have "invested" over $3m in the "restoration", with nothing worthwhile to show for it. Do the taxpayers even care? Apparently not.


The IRS form 990s that the museum filed for 2009, 2010, and 2011 are available for free download (after registration) at Guidestar.org; look under "Railroaders Heritage Corporation".

Over at the NGDF, I posted some comments about the Museum's form 990 for 2011; here's the link to my post:
Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum: Larry Salone & the Altoona Railroaders Museum/Horseshoe Curve Site [More IRS Form 990 Info]
Author:  David Johnston [ Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Altoona Museum
Photos would indicate the quarter roundhouse structure was finished last year. Someone from the area should be able to tell us how it is going. I hope they are getting equipment inside. It is starting to look pretty rough.
Author:  1361prr [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Altoona Museum
Not finished, no utilities, only a bare-bones empty building. The money ran out; well, actually it was mis-spent.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Altoona Museum
"Misspent". Is that your opinion or proven in accounting documents? Sure, we'd all do it different, and review happens in 20/20 vision. I have my own strategy for rebuild 1361, and you have yours, but unless you are sitting on the board of the museum, can you really say the money is "misspent"? "Too little", I'll buy without comment.
Author:  East of Eden [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Altoona Museum
Most, if not all the funds used for the roundhouse were from a PA State grant. Grants are very specific as to how they can be spent, procurement procedures, etc. At the end of the grant process, a certified CPA submits a report on how the funds were spent to satisfy State (and Federal) mandates.

Since we don't know what the specs were for the grant, perhaps there were cost overruns. Its very difficult to misspend funds for say, a weekend in Vegas.
Author:  superheater [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Altoona Museum
""Misspent". Is that your opinion or proven in accounting documents?"


I understand the question but "accounting documents" very well might not reveal misspending. Misspending is as much a question of opportunity cost or "had we done this other thing, we'd have had this other result". Example: in 1948 The Reading Company ordered new Pacifics, a decision that very arguably was misspending, since these locomotives had extremely short service lives.

The term misspent as used here does require more detail. Are you asserting unwise, inefficient decisions or something else?
Author:  Dave [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Altoona Museum
This project evolved in many directions at many same times.....losing continuity, a rear view, forward trajectory, and a sense of strategy and purpose in the process. A lot had to do with adapting to changing conditions not only as discovered during the work, but in the circumstances surrounding it - so I don't think we can define one particular thing that is responsible for its state of incompletion. Reactionary emotional or simplistic comments don't do much to clarify any of it. Stop it.

dave
Author:  David Johnston [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Altoona Museum
Talking only about the roundhouse here, what i read is that the state grant for two million fell through in 2009. They then went out and found a private donation to replace the state money. You have to give them credit for that. Even if the building is unfinished, even with some temporary track, equipment could be moved inside. Occupancy refers to people, not displays, so equipment can still be placed in the building if it is not finished. Since they have raised about four million, half from government sources and half from private, it seems likely they should be able to raise enough to finish the building.
Author:  Mgoldman [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Altoona Museum
Here are two photos - inside and out taken while #765 was in town in May.

I was a bit surprised (read - let down) that they elected to go with such a ridiculously modern design made of anything but brick and stone. Considering how many PRR buildings survived in Altoona including the PRR Master Mechanics Building (the face of the Museum) right next door.

/Mitch

Attachments:
Altoona GG1 4913 LR.jpg
Altoona GG1 4913 LR.jpg [ 267.26 KiB | Viewed 6981 times ]
Roundhouse LR.jpg
Roundhouse LR.jpg [ 274.42 KiB | Viewed 6981 times ]
Altoona RR Museum LR.jpg
Altoona RR Museum LR.jpg [ 253.16 KiB | Viewed 6981 times ]
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Altoona Museum
Mgoldman wrote:
I was a bit surprised (read - let down) that they elected to go with such a ridiculously modern design made of anything but brick and stone. Considering how many PRR buildings survived in Altoona including the PRR Master Mechanics Building (the face of the Museum) right next door.


Having been involved in a couple enginehouse/etc. constructions over the years, I'll ask:

How many bricks can we put you down for?
Author:  Mgoldman [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Altoona Museum
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Mgoldman wrote:
I was a bit surprised (read - let down) that they elected to go with such a ridiculously modern design made of anything but brick and stone. Considering how many PRR buildings survived in Altoona including the PRR Master Mechanics Building (the face of the Museum) right next door.


Having been involved in a couple enginehouse/etc. constructions over the years, I'll ask:

How many bricks can we put you down for?


Cute. Imagine if ALL projects of every sort depended on my donations...

I do have a few bricks scattered throughout the country, however, including some you can actually see at Ely, NV and the Wilmington and Western. As for the roundhouse at Altoona, I for one did pay the $20 for a 20 minute visit to the Curve and an additional $8.00 the next day to visit the museum where I made a few purchases from the gift shop.

And then there's the fact that I live in PA, so I would bet I've contributed some grant money as well.

I assumed it was a cost issue, but Jeeze... of all the places to see a steel building, painted tan and red, next to the Master Mechanics Building in Altoona was not one I would've expected. Fortunately, such plans were derailed in Strasburg and a "legitimate" structure was zoned in as a requirement.

So - something is better then nothing, though somethings are worth waiting for /worth doing right.

Don't get me wrong - it's actually not a half bad looking building. It looks OK in the context of a Museum to see "stuff". But I stand firm on my observation - Altoona with it's network of surviving PRR buildings would not have been the place I'd have expected someone to supplement with a tan painted steel roundhouse.

/Mitch
Author:  artschwartz [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Altoona Museum
How many visitors come to any rail museum because of the architecture?
Author:  Mgoldman [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Altoona Museum
artschwartz wrote:
How many visitors come to any rail museum because of the architecture?


Kind of makes you wonder why all skyscrapers in the US are not exactly the same other then height.

/Mitch
Author:  Dave [ Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Altoona Museum
The B&O museum and Savannah museum are two I'd visit for the buildings even if there was nothing else there to be seen. Spencer.....maybe.

If you understand the public sector's approach and the construction industry's approach, and the role of modern day regulators and inspectors it makes sense that a method of engineering and construction that is easy to understand and familiar to those holding the purse strings or occupancy permit in hand would be chosen.

dave
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