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| The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35300 |
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| Author: | Mgoldman [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection |
The following is a list of the Paulsen Spence collection compiled by Trains magazine in March of 1963: The majority of the 35 locomotives in 8 different wheel arrangements are listed below: (All in "A-1 condition except flues) Red River and Gulf #104 (4-4-0) GM&N #425 (4-6-2) T&P #800 (2-8-2) T&P #700 (4-6-2) T&P #472 (0-6-0) Abilene & Southern (2-8-2) Mississippi Central (2-8-2) Mississippi Central 121 (2-8-2) Mississippi Central #16 (2-8-2) Mississippi Central #98 (4-4-0) M&O / GM&O #45 (0-6-0) IC (0-6-0) IC #1180 (4-6-2) Grand Trunk #7528 (?) Southern Pacific #260 (4-4-0) Comite Southern #425 (2-8-0) NKP #174 (4-6-4) NKP #___ (4-6-4) NKP #___ (4-6-4) ? #475 (2-8-2) FEC #20 (0-8-0) Corrections welcome - some info not specifically noted. There were four survivors. More info can be found at "Wiki" under "Louisiana Easter": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Eastern_Railroad /Mitch |
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| Author: | Frisco1522 [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection |
This is a painful list to look at. Some real gems on that roster that would be ideal for short lines today. Couple would be good on some mainlines. Darned shame common sense didn't prevail. |
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| Author: | joe6167 [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection |
I checked my CNR steam roster for more info on that Grand Trunk engine on the list, and discovered that two more GT/GTW 0-6-0's were also sold to the Louisiana Eastern Railroad. Number/Class Date Sold Buyer 7524 O-19-a 9/59 To Louisiana Eastern Railroad 7528 O-19-a 9/59 To Louisiana Eastern Railroad 7531 O-19-a 11/59 To Louisiana Eastern Railroad 7424 was assigned to the GTW, the other two were assigned to the GT (the line operating throughout New England) |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection |
Mitch - As I recall, there was a GM&O 2-8-2 in the collection. That may be the #475. Les |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection |
Les Beckman wrote: Mitch - As I recall, there was a GM&O 2-8-2 in the collection. That may be the #475. Les Mitch - I checked out another old RyPN thread on the Spence collection and found out that the 475 is a former GM&O Mike. According to that poster (me!), Spence actually had two Gulf, Mobile & Ohio 2-8-2's on his roster. I can't recall now where that information came from! Les |
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| Author: | Howard P. [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection |
This is cross-posted from the Sharks thread: J. David can probably provide more details, but I recall that Spence was friends with Malcolm Ottinger (Phoenixville, Pa) and Thomas Marshall (Wilmington, Del), and there had been some prior arrangement for each of those men to get an engine upon Spence's death. This may have been a bequest, or simply a right to purchase. Ottinger obtained GM&O 425 (later used by him on his tourist road) and Marshall obtained MC 98 (moved from LE to Strasburg for storage in 1963, and then to Wilmington & Western, which Marshall was a founder of). There was a story that Nelson Blount got wind of the Spence collection and tried to purchase all or part of it, but was stymied by two things: ICRR refusal to move the locomotives on own wheels, and the insistence by the Spence executors that everything be moved or scrapped with a short time period (30-60 days). Most of the people who were contemporaries of these men are now gone themselves, and there is little besides remembered anecdotal history told to some of us 40+ years ago. Sure wish I could call up Steve Bogen and ask him. Howard P. |
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| Author: | Catalpa [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection |
I can help, a bit, on the list of Louisiana Eastern locomotives. The NKPHTS has photographs taken by Howard Ameling of the white-lined NKP 173 (2 photos) and NKP 175 (one photo) taken in Shiloh, Louisiana. I remember talking with Howard, some years ago, and he told of meeting Paulson Spence and photographing the locomotives. Like many others, I sure wish that something could have been done. At least one NKP Hudson remains in St. Louis. G.F.Payne B'more, MD |
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| Author: | tom moungovan [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection |
Can anyone please shed some light on this? A recently deceased old friend had a number plate in his large collection...it was 17 and had Louisiana Eastern Railroad embossed on the outside rim. I knew him well enough to believe that this was legit as he had dealt directly with many railroads in amassing the collection that he had. Could 17 have been a renumbering? |
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| Author: | ge44tonner [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection |
According to this reference, LE #17 was a renumbering of M&O/GM&) #45, a 0-6-0. http://hawkinsrails.net/shortlines/le/le.htm The reference also describes one of the 2-8-0 as a former Colorado Midland engine. |
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| Author: | LV95068 [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection |
Howard P. wrote: This is cross-posted from the Sharks thread: J. David can probably provide more details, but I recall that Spence was friends with Malcolm Ottinger (Phoenixville, Pa) and Thomas Marshall (Wilmington, Del), and there had been some prior arrangement for each of those men to get an engine upon Spence's death. This may have been a bequest, or simply a right to purchase. Ottinger obtained GM&O 425 (later used by him on his tourist road) and Marshall obtained MC 98 (moved from LE to Strasburg for storage in 1963, and then to Wilmington & Western, which Marshall was a founder of). Howard P. The Marshalls most likely purchased 98 right from Spence. According to the W&W website the Marshalls purchased 98 in Jan. 1960. I took a Kodachrome slide of 98 at Strasburg in October 1961. 98 was moved from Strasburg to the Wilmington Industrial Park (former Jackson & Sharp Delaware Car Works) in the Spring of 1964 and then to Marshallton DE in the Spring of 1966. 425 may have been purchased after Spence's death. It came through Wilmington DE dead-in-tow eastbound in the B&O local freight in Oct. 1963. Both engines came up from Louisiana with the side and main rods and crossheads in place and the piston heads and piston rods removed. IIRC 98 had a retired Reading engineman as a messenger. Not positive about 425, but from a picture it looks like it had a rider for the trip also. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection |
As I recall from the articles published afterwards, various Louisiana Eastern locos were wantonly and randomly renumbered during the Spence days, so much so that occasionally a loco would show up with different numbers on the loco and tender, as I recall. A roster that showed up in the May 1956 Trains indicated 17 was former GM&O USRA 0-6-0 45, ex-Mobile & Ohio 45, built at Cooke 1919. |
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| Author: | J.David [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection |
Greetings: A few comments on the Spence Collection. The collection had been scrapped by the time I made it down to Amite (?). All that was left were piles of boiler jackets and asbestos adjacent to where the deed was done. I met Malcolm Ottinger once. I don't recall him mentioning being a friend of Spence, but he had a long story about how much difficulty he had with the Illinois Central getting them to move the 425. There is a good bit of physical evidence that the story about Nelson Blount trying to buy the collection might be true. When we were moving Steamtown, I came across a dozen or so Louisiana Eastern number plates in a D&H coach which we loaded up into an EL baggage car(?) with other jewelry. Curious, I asked around and was told the story that after failing at purchasing the locomotives, Nelson sent a crew down to Louisiana to strip parts off parts which were brought to North Walpole, NH. This part of the story was confirmed by a Green Mountain track man who had been part of the crew. Some of the Steamtown spare parts stock was pointed out as coming from the LE and it was said that a lot of the parts in the box car that Strasburg bought with the No.89 were from LE. Many years later, I needed a specific size/type headlight for a restoration project. I traded another headlight (?) for one out of a pile. The number in the number board was 7531, one of the CNR 0-6-0s from the Spence Collection. Be well, J.David |
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| Author: | Jim Herron [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection |
We have footage of the LE in operation in Glory Machines Vol. 5, including a shot of Paulsen Spence in the cab of the one of the 4-4-0's. It was shot on 16mm film by Bill Witbeck. -JH |
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| Author: | tom moungovan [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: number 17 |
thanks all for the help on the identity on this one. |
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| Author: | cjvrr [ Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The (once) Paulsen Spence Collection |
Haven't had time to look but are there any overall photos of the collection posted online? |
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