A recent post on Railpictures. Notice that there is no overhead wire. So the question is, how did this car get its power? I see what looks to be a "third rail" in the gauge between the running rails. Did this car have a shoe that made contact to an underground high voltage line, or how exactly did this work?

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=226542

You got it; they used a third rail in a conduit between the running rails.

Well, I am not so much of an expert here, but by law passed by Congress, there were no overhead wires in a central (most) area of DC. The system did have overhead trolley wire and used it on lines radiating farther from the city center. There were changeover locations as cars entered the no wire zone, with a 'pit' in the street to engage (and attach?) an underground plow. The cars operated on conventional 600 V DC in both modes so it was not really a "HIGH VOLTAGE" system.

This was referred to as a conduit power system, and did not parts of Third Avenue in NYC use conduit pickup?

Bob Kutella

Wow, what a great site! Lot of neat pictures there. That underground conduit system is really interesting, I bet it was a real bummer operating those cars in the winter time with snow and ice build-up. I'd be interested to hear how they handled those problems.



I suppose that the term "high voltage" is open to interpretation (compared to say, 12,000VAC), however my definition would include anything that could be potentially lethal. Or at the very least, make you have a REALLY bad day! As someone who works around 600VDC all the time, I have a pretty healthy respect for the stuff and have no desire to ever find myself as the path to ground.

Overhead trolley wire was forbidden in The District of Columbia and the Boroughs of Manhattan and I think The Bronx in New York City. There were two copper rails under the street engaged by the "plow". While this sounds complicated, much of the trackage so equipped was originally cable car track in both cities. The last active streetcar line in New York City, the Queensboro Bridge Railway, had deactivated conduit for its length as Third Avenue Railway System cars once operated into Queens Plaza to connect with subsidiary Steinway Lines.

Capital Transit operated into Maryland, and TARS operated in Westchester County, so both had some overhead lines.

Details of Washington's conduit operation can be found in an RyPN brief:

http://www.rypn.org/RyPN/briefs/viewbriefs.asp?filename=061001003158.txt



The "Congressional law" myth follows in the shadows of the National City Lines legend: there is some truth in each. This issue has come up again as Washington considers construction requirements for a new light rail system. In the case of Washington's streetcars, the requirement for no overhead wires within the "old City" (roughly south of Florida Avenue) was written into the charter granted by Congress for each operating company. At the present time there is no such charter in existence for WMATA. However, the city powers are looking to follow the spirit of the old charters and so far have forbidden discussion of any overhead wire system that would cross the National Mall.



CTCo 1053 was one of 10 pre-PCCs built by St. Louis Car in 1935. There were also 10 similar cars built by Brill. The St. Louis cars were welded bodies and the Brills were riveted construction. The St. Louis cars used a PCM controller. CTCo 1053 survived until the 2003 fire at the National Capital Trolley Museum. For those of you who have operated PCCs, CTCo 1053 had the accelerating qualities of a PCC, but used traditional air brakes, and thus would easily coast along. It was a great car. Sometime prior to the fire we did a line up with CTCo 1053, and three generations of PCCs: DCTS 1101 (1937), TTC 4603 (1951), and HTM 1329 (1971). I could go on with anecdotes about CTCo 1053. It was a great car and a real source of pride for our Museum.

Wesley

The definition of high voltage depends on the context of the discussion. Two factors considered in the classification of a "high voltage" are the possibility of causing a spark in air, and the danger of electric shock by contact or proximity.

The International Electrotechnical Commission and its national counterparts (IET, IEEE, VDE, etc.) define high voltage circuits as those with more than 1000 V for alternating current and at least 1500 V for direct current, and distinguish it from low voltage (50–1000 V AC or 120–1500 V DC) and extra low voltage (<50 V AC or <120 V DC) circuits. This is in the context of the safety of electrical apparatus.

In electric power transmission engineering, high voltage is usually considered any voltage over approximately 35,000 volts. This is a classification based on the design of apparatus and insulation. Transmission voltages over 275,000 volts are considered extra high voltage.

In the United States 2005 National Electrical Code (NEC), high voltage is any voltage over 600 V (article 490.2).

DPK

Of the 40 Brilliners built, four survive. All are from the last order, the Red Arrow double end high speed cars.

The Shore Line Trolley Museum has one,#8 , as does the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum, #5. The Electric City Trolley Museum has two, #7 & 9.

None are operable, although #5 at PTM is in near operable condition and is on display indoors.
Based on the previous record of ECTM in not retaining duplicate cars, I suspect that, if anyone seriously wants a Brilliner, they might sell one.David N, do you have any comment.

In the context of my earlier answer, I did not consider 600 V DC as high voltage. Rather it was usual and common for that system to be used on street railway equipment - vs, 1200 or 1500 V DC used on some properties or even the less widely applied 3000 V AC which saw short lived experiemnts on electric 'interurban' properties.

So, that is consistent with the technical definitions.

Bob Kutella

Obviously, the definition of high voltage depends on what industry you're in and what standards you follow. FRA defines high voltage as anything in excess of 150 volts.

Scroll down to page 3.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/16nov20071500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/octqtr/pdf/49cfr229.5.pdf

#8 does run, sort of, on one reguaged truck and one dummy shop truck, with all the disabilities you can imagine.

Muni 1003 at the Western Railway Museum operates on Brilliner 97ER-1 trucks. It runs regularly. It is one of five"experimental" cars built for Muni in 1939. These cars used different combinations of control equipment and trucks to decide which type worked better in San Francisco.

Mechanically it is an air GE double-end PCC car operating on Brilliner trucks with GE Cineston hand control rather than foot pedals. Technically it is not a PCC car. The body was built by St. Louis Car Company and is very similar construction to PCC cars of the period. Doors are font and rear with no center doors.

In my opinion ride on the Brilliner trucks on open track at WRM is better than Clark B-2 trucks used on PCC cars. Both of these types of trucks were designed to operate on girder rail in city streets. Later Clark B-3 trucks were designed for open track operation.

Washington DC and Manhattan both had extensive cable car systems that were converted to conduit electric operation. The conduit system was too expensive to build and required too much major street reconstruction to be used for new electric lines. Overseas London had some conduit operation.

Does anyone know of a source for a good set of drawings or scale plans for these cars?

Thanks!

Chris

Chris,

There are scale elevations of the 1000s in the appendix to 100 Years of Capital Traction by Roy King. Copies are almost always available on eBay. Look for a second or third printing.

Wesley

Cool. Thanks!