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| Westinghouse 1443A Traction Motors https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35541 |
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| Author: | Jeff Livingston [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Westinghouse 1443A Traction Motors |
The Hawaiian Railway society is operating three 1944/45 Whitcomb narrow gauge locomotives all of which have Westinghouse 1443A traction motors. Over the last few years we have suffered a number of fan failures which destroy both the armature and field windings. Prices for replacement motors have gone from about $7,000 to $15,000 dollars and we then have to replace the fans with new and overhaul the motors which costs an additional $6,000 to $8,000. We understand that there is a GE replacement motor which may be more available but have not been able to determine what GE motor it is. GE has been unresponsive. Anybody know which GE motor it might be? Thanks, Jeff Livingston Historian Hawaiian Railway Society |
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| Author: | David H. Hamley [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Westinghouse 1443A Traction Motors |
There is no GE motor that is a direct substitute for the (W) 1443A. The closest GE design is the 762, and even that would require a great deal of adaptation in order to match to your existing gearbox, plus a special pinion. You'll spend a great deal more going that route than continuing to deal with the original setup. If you are searching for more 1443A motors, I suggest you contact Dennis Lavender at Western Star Rail Service, Newark, OH 740-344-3336. |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Westinghouse 1443A Traction Motors |
I bet you could rig up a circuit that warns when the fan fails. Say for example an ammeter on the fan circuit. If it drops to zero the fan is not running, if it rises above normal, the fan is shorted. Seems like monitoring the fan is your critical monitoring task. |
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| Author: | David H. Hamley [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Westinghouse 1443A Traction Motors |
The fan being referred to is a cast aluminum device mounted directly on the motor shaft, not some separate piece of equipment. Thus there no way to easily measure its performance--except when it comes apart from old age and chews up the motor windings, etc. A monitor circuit would be a good concept for a separately driven blower, but all the old self-ventilated motors made their own breeze. |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Westinghouse 1443A Traction Motors |
That "fan" sounds like a great candidate for 3D printing of a replacement. |
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| Author: | robertmacdowell [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Westinghouse 1443A Traction Motors |
Or lay one up out of RCC. Which is like fiberglass, except that it doesn't turn clear when it's wetted with resin, so you have to vacuum bag it to assure the resin soaks through. Fairly lightweight and freakishly strong. You get to decide the strong directions by which cloth you use and how you lay it. Tap Plastics sells all that stuff. Although, I would wonder what's making your fans fail. If something extrenal is failing them, it could fail an RCC one too. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Westinghouse 1443A Traction Motors |
We've learned a LOT about aluminum since WWII. Lots about fans also. I wouldn't be surprised to find you can produce better fans that are stronger and less prone to fatigue / molecular changes / oxidation than the early aluminum castings that have exceeded their useful life span. Replacing the motors because the internal fan fails is like replacing the motor in your car because the carbeuretor has failed.......almost all carbs are equally obsolete, but finding one that will adapt and work isn't all that tough. Best of luck solving this problem - might be worthwhile to see if traction elevator motors share internal fans you could adapt. dave |
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| Author: | filmteknik [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Westinghouse 1443A Traction Motors |
Could there be some way to remove the fans and adapt the motor cases to external ventilation? |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Westinghouse 1443A Traction Motors |
Some Westinghouse motors went though design improvements over the years and the various versions were assigned new alpa sub-letter. I recall a conversation about a WH motor that saw various a suburban or interurban applications; it had a long production run of several decades, but ended up with a different sub-letter. Some of the changes were better insulation and other changes were better ventilation. Question would be if there were subsequent design changes to the 1443 motor. |
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| Author: | David Johnston [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Westinghouse 1443A Traction Motors |
I do not know what service your locomotive is in, if it is not particularly demanding, you may be able to omit the fan. I believe that the fan adds about 10 to 15 % to the motors horsepower. If these motors have been rebuilt recently, the more modern insulation any already give you the temperature margin you need to eliminate the fan. Dave Hamley may be able to help you with this or a good motor shop maybe be able to advise. The important thing is to comparing your service with the service the locomotive was designed for and see if there is margin you can use. |
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| Author: | Jeff Livingston [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Westinghouse 1443A Traction Motors |
Thanks for the input Gentlemen, The fans appear to be failing due to age and contamination. We have a source for new cast fans and the last motor we bought received one. Each replacement motor we buy gets disassembled, cleaned, dipped, baked, commutator burnished or machined as necessary, undercut and beveled if necessary, balanced, new bearings and brushes etc. (helps to be the Manager of an electrical contractor with a full motor shop). Even with the family discount overhaul is expensive. We can get the rotor form coils and we've got one good set of poles so the next motor will get a rotor rewind, new fan and overhaul. I think it will be less expensive than buying another replacement. We're also looking to start a fan replacement program. We run about three 90 minute rides per week Mon to Fri and two on Sunday with a potential increase of five more rides per week if a current charter project is successful. There is really no room for an external fan and we're trying to keep our equipment as original as possible. I will check the source mentioned for spares. Thanks, Jeff Livingston Historian Hawaiian Railway Society www.hawaiianrailway.com |
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