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Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35637		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  k5ahudson [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:58 am ]
Post subject:  Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
I found this video interesting. All of a sudden now in 2013 things have changed? Why is it practical now, but not in 1994?
http://youtu.be/J6taNngpcYk
Author:  Wowak [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
It's practical now because the people writing the checks want it enough.
Author:  Frisco1522 [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
Could have happened then if a Daddy Warbucks would have stepped up like he did this time. Whoever he is, thank him.
Author:  buzz_morris [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
19 years is "all of a sudden"? Things do change.
Although he makes some convincing arguments, 60 gallons of fuel a mile!
Author:  Bruce Duensing [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
There is more history behind the positive aspects of UP's program of appealing to the general public to celebrate history and it fits well into the corporation's being a part of that community.
In business the net effect is called an intangible asset.
The fact that NS followed suit is evident of a benefit, not an act of charity.
That CSX has not followed suit is the proliferation of their presence on television commercials that have increased toting their positive environmental impact by taking trucks off the road.
So we are dealing with intangible assets versus tangible effects. They are both pointed at the public at large, not at rail fans.
Author:  J3a-614 [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
Sometimes it's not a change in attitude as much as a change in people.

Looking at the video of Steve Lee, I wonder if he may have been one of the naysayers in Union Pacific at the time. This is not meant as a criticism of Lee; he certainly makes a case that operating a 4000 was expensive and not something that would be profitable. Heck, operating any steam program at all is expensive and rarely profitable, at least in the normal sense that has been done with excursions in the past.

(Discussion of this from a while back.)

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34312

All of this means that (a) we should be grateful to "Daddy Warbucks" for supporting the restoration of a Big Boy, (b) we should be grateful to Union Pacific for maintaining the steam program all these years, and taking pride in its history, and (c) still be grateful to Steve Lee for his part in keeping the steam program alive and professional, to the point that his work laid the foundation for the ability of the UP steam team to take on this new project.

With Thanksgiving approaching, that sounds like plenty to be thankful for! (At least on the UP!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0O1QhOMz9Y

(And this is coming from someone who thinks we "don't get no respect, no respect at all!")
Author:  NW Class J [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
Could be that what you heard in the video was Omaha talking and not so much Steve talking. I think what is key here is that the dollars are there, be it from a mystery donor or the UP itself, and the fact that the UP was able to get the 4014 and own it outright.
Author:  p51 [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
I wasn't aware that the UP now owned the 4014, Just harassed that and assumed it a long-term lease.
As for the video, I think it's fair to say this could be an attempt to kill the rumors at the time. I too had heard they had a 4000 stored away to run someday, but always knew better...
Author:  k5ahudson [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
buzz_morris wrote:
19 years is "all of a sudden"? Things do change.
Although he makes some convincing arguments, 60 gallons of fuel a mile!

Some things just haven't changed at all since 1994. 4014 is still too long for most turntables, unless it shrunk over the last 19 years, and it would still burn 60 gallons of fuel in a mile. Except now it would be even MORE expensive.
Author:  Dave [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
I think that once having rationalized the project and committed to it armed with all the knowledge that Ed and Company bring to the table, the cost of fuel is pretty much an inconsequential part of the reckoning. I'm not envisioning extended tours or daily operation. It's for making a statement, not for economic hauling of many thousands of tons of freight.

dave
Author:  6-18003 [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
Obviously someone is thinking with their heart and not their wallet. For as much as I would like to see it, returning one of these beasts to steam is a wasteful venture.
Author:  scottychaos [ Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
1994 - No one is planning to restore one, so the many reasons why its not practical to restore one are emphasized, and any reasons *to* restore one aren't much debated, because its a moot point anyway.

2013 - UP is planning to restore one, so the reasons why it can be done are emphasized, and any reasons to not restore one aren't much debated, because its a moot point anyway.

Scot
Author:  Bruce Duensing [ Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
I would be hesitant to characterize a large corporation as having a bleeding heart or naive about their own successful business or ignorant of their track profiles or the cost of the thing, let alone being the object of anonymous charity..the woo-hoo factor is just beating around the bush and has the same naivety that has been projected onto UP.
And so it goes..
Author:  Kevin Gilliam [ Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
scottychaos wrote:
1994 - No one is planning to restore one, so the many reasons why its not practical to restore one are emphasized, and any reasons *to* restore one aren't much debated, because its a moot point anyway.

2013 - UP is planning to restore one, so the reasons why it can be done are emphasized, and any reasons to not restore one aren't much debated, because its a moot point anyway.

Scot




Here's another point. UP has 3985. Most people won't know the difference anyway, 3985 is still huge (and the largest operating engine in the US), and there are considerable benefits to running a Challenger around the system as opposed to a Big Boy as far as wheelbase, clearances, etc. As long as UP is footing the bill, they really don't need a 3rd operable engine, so why go to the hassle of restoring a 4000 when the 3985 fits your needs better?

Of course, when someone else wants to donate money to see a Big Boy run, it's a win-win proposition for UP. Sure, there are challenges which are basically the same as they were in 1994, but nothing is insurmountable with enough time, money, manpower and the desire to see it happen.
Kevin
Author:  davew833 [ Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Big Boy Restoration - A change of attitude.
A discussion on Trainorders quoted a Union Pacific press release dated 7/23:

"Omaha, Neb., July 23, 2013 – Union Pacific Railroad today announced
it reached an agreement with the Southern California Chapter - Railway
& Locomotive Historical Society in Pomona, Calif., to transfer ownership
of one of the world's largest steam locomotives, Big Boy No. 4014, back
to Union Pacific."

#4014 belongs to Union Pacific once again- they're not borrowing it.
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