Quick question. when you have to take your rules test either for a commercial railroad or for a museum railroad, is the test open or closed book?

Brandi

All the tests I've taken for museums are closed book, review before.

Freight railroads don't give you a review in my experience, but it is also closed book.

You're lucky you don't have to WRITE the rulebook.

That was the modus operandi back in the mid-20th century and before.

You were given a question & you had to write the rule in full - no multiple choice.

Somehow, the vast majority of railroaders managed to do it - with copious amounts of study.

Interestingly - one tourist railroad I was acquainted with still used that method at least until 1990 (maybe later).

If you need an open book to take a basic (safety) test, you are not going to be happy with working on the railroad. You have to acquire the instinct of safety.

It depends on the railroad and how their training and instruction program is set up. In almost all cases, it would be a closed book test. Back in the day when I was the rules examiner for the Grand Canyon Railway, we used the “write the rule book” as a training tool. This forced the individual to read every rule in the book, write it down and be prepared to ask questions if they did not understand any specific rule. I would then spend time with each student and go through the book, rule by rule, and answer any questions or clarify any rule. After that and a full day rules training class (2 days for engineers/conductors/dispatchers), they would take a 100 question closed book test that involved multiple choice, true/false and written questions. All questions were geared toward understanding of the rule, not memorization. After all this, I felt they had a pretty good handle on the rules and were ready to apply them.

In the past, I have developed and instructed rules classes for museums and local railroads. In some cases, when it became apparent that the rules were just “suggestions” and there was no expectation to comply with the rules, I gave up. The more you understand, comply, and even challenge the rules that arte not understood, you will be a better and safer railroader.

My 2 cents

MD Ramsey

The difference between writing the book of rules then, and rules tests today!!! That big book is 3 inches thick, and the binder next to it is full of rule changes to the rules in the big book... then they put out new ones to reflect changes to the rule changes over our intranet every day.

We (UP) have to take them on some sort of oddball schedule. Take it this year, skip one, then once a year for the next two. It wears me out.

The last class I was in there were 6 of us. I was the youngest in seniority. Most of the others had 30+ years of service. Most of the class time was spent arguing with the dolt teaching the class.

He already knows all the answers from teaching it over and over and over for a number of years. It's all he does. He's wanting to go thru the discussion like gas thru a funnel because he's bored, and we're looking at him with the "WTF" look. What does this mean, how come we can't do that, when did they change that, we used to be able to do this....

I had a lot of questions, cause I have a thick skull, and at one point he said "You've used all your questions up" which caused me to throw all my papers up in the air in disgust and cross my arms on my chest pissed off.... He thought I was kidding asking the questions, I guess. I wasn't. The railroad changes rules, parts of rules, sentence structure, punctuation and all manner of other things in that book every day. Plus, we have the regional Superintendent that puts out changes to particular rules and the way they apply them about once a week.

The big problem is the constant change and additions. No one (that I work around) is really ever certain of a rule because they change stuff ALL THE TIME.

I bet you can't ask any two people when it's OK to extinguish the headlight on an engine and get the same answer. When you have to make 85% or better to keep your job, it starts to work on you. No more cheating by copying answers. We have to take it on a laptop, each persons' test questions are in different order, each set of multiple choice answers to each question are in a different order... and the guy doesn't want to leave the room.

I wish they'd make it that if everyone in class doesn't pass, the instructor loses his job!

Just came out with a new rule on our division that no matter if you just instructed your man to remove a derail off the track you're going to be going over, and even watched him actually unlock it and remove it and lay it over on it's side on the ties.... you are still obligated to pull up and stop 100' before you go over it.

Don't do that and they see you.... level 5 fired.

A related question. If certain sections of the GCOR don't apply on a specific railroad, such as the section on CTC, does the employee have to be tested on the CTC rules?

Greg

Bad order has hit the nail on the head.
It has become Politically Correct to constantly change rules to suit internal politics, rather than to use some common sense in the creation, application and execution of those rules.
It seems there has been an ongoing drive to make all railroads use the same rules as class ones. This may be partly due to movement of class one managers to shortlines and such. It is also partly due to management using the rule book as a weapon against the employees.
So far, it seems no one has realized that you do not need to, and/or should not, make a new rule each time something happens.
Common sense says: Train employees to do the job correctly. When something goes wrong, apply the rule as needed. Alot can be/is covered by the statement:"follow the safe course".
As to parts of the test not applying to a job, as long as you will not be running under CTC, that part of the test should not apply to you. IE:a tourist operation on a shortline doesn't need to test for Hazmat handling rules, because they don't/won't handle Hazmat cars/materials.

Some railroads probably do but that is really a waste of time and effort. In my experience, if a rule or section of the rule book did not apply to our operation or railroad, we skipped it. I never could see the sense in filling people's heads with useless information. The rules that you do need are difficult enough to get people to understand and follow as it is.

The GCOR was originally written by a group of railroads that wanted to have a common rule book so that employees who operated on more than one railroad did not have to carry, know, and be tested on several different books. It is a given that every railroad that adopts it would not necessarily have need of every rule in the book.



So true. I work for a different class one railroad but they are the same with the constant changes. Then there is the additional confusion of different officials interpreting the same rules differently. The sad fact is, that if an official really wants to, they can go out on any day and watch any crew long enough and find them in violation of some rule or directive. I consider myself to be pretty familiar with the rules but the best I can really hope for is to just know them well enough to know when I need to look something up.

On every railroad I have worked for the operating rules test was a closed book, multiple choice written test. Usually, the test over the hazardous materials rules and often the timetable is open book.

Russ

I agree with Russ, if the rule does not apply to the railroad, there is no point in training or testing to that rule. In many cases, the railroad will indicate in their system special instructions what rules will or will not apply on that railroad.

Mike Ramsey

I'm not a railroader, but in my 1522 travels (and staying at Holiday Inn Express) I learned a lot of what today's railroaders have to endure.
At the risk of being non PC, I think the dumbing down of America is reaching into all corners. The same can be said for the nanny state attitude.
I've had pilot engineers drag what looked like a steamer trunk with a grip handle up into 1522's little cab and wonder how folks like my Dad ever got along with a 4x6 rulebook, a time slip book and a wad of waste in his overalls.
As the saying goes, "It ain't your Dad's railroad any more".
It also seems like it's one of the few businesses where more time is spent trying to catch you doing something wrong rather than tell you good job once in a while.
A little pat on the back from your superior never hurt anyone.

Yes a great deal of todays rule books are driven by Federal requirements and our ever litigious society. I will also suggest that a person walked out of High School 35+ years ago with a great deal of more common sense than today.

We no longer live in a society where a great deal of the population are involved in jobs working with their hands, working long hours or have spent a great deal of time working outside in all weather extremes. Even basic mechanical aptitude is disappearing since its pretty rare for folks to work on their own cars anymore. It explains why the railroads heavily recruit ex-military veterans. After Iraq or Afghanistan, railroading seems pretty cushy.

Hence the modern rule books attempt to spell out every contingency in an attempt to cover it all. When I see folks who can't understand track warrants, I ask my self how could they have possibly managed running under Train Orders & timetable rules?

It's a shift in what's being learned. The other day an older gentleman posted a picture on Facebook where his USB cord was plugged into his ethernet port and was complaining about his "Internets" not working. I wondered how did this guy even buy a computer. On the flip side, changing the spark plugs in my car? No thanks.

It's not the fault of litigious society.... it's the railroads trying to cover every loophole and gap that allows a man to elude punishment for any possible transgression.

On our section of the railroad, the newest edict to come down the pipeline (yesterday) was, in plain english..... "if you get a knuckle on your train... it is an automatic level 3 discipline for punishment, piss test the violator, and is forced to go take a trip on the locomotive simulator....

... All that for getting a knuckle. I got two the day before yesterday, but I just run the switch engine here in the yard. In my defense, the switchmen had me drag out a cut of 83 cars and were wanting me to kick one!!!

I fly under the radar.....

Soon it will all be on a tablet computer and subject to change daily. Compliance will become more important than actually getting work done. Of course then the manager and corporate hacks will complain about declining productivity, and issue rules for that.

I worked in a call center with paperless operations, and yes, you could see call scripts and procedures change daily. Annoying in the least and frustrating as hell if somebody pulled the tape (all the time) and dinged you on the review.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT

Back when I was with TVRM, I bought an old Conductor's box and used it to carry my rule books, train books and timetables. Those of us that were NS qualified had to take the NS Rules Examination (closed book). The guys that were restricted to TVRM took a separate exam for the home road. You pretty much needed a steamer trunk like my box to carry your stuff. One day I weighed it just for fun on the baggage scale. Loaded out with books, tools and supplies, it weighed close to twenty pounds.

As you can imagine, lugging that thing around was a pain in the rear. We had narrow cab RSD-1s at the time and there were several times that I just sat the box on the running board and left it there, rather than stuffing it and myself through the cab door-I'm 6'5".

The airlines have already gone to the electronic flight bag and now get fewer work related injuries reported by pilots. The courts are also shifting from paper filings to electronic filing at the state and local levels. Virtually all of our directives are issued electronically. Also, the training for Passport Acceptance Agents is now strictly electronic and internet based.

Back when I provided instruction for trainee crewmembers, I would often verbally quiz them on their knowledge of applicable rules and procedures. Sometimes I would do it under time limits (ie. 30 seconds) for critical items that should be rote knowledge.