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| Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35879 |
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| Author: | M Austin [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
A-1 News Release Tornado to miss Shrewsbury turn Tuesday, 19 November 2013 14:05 Tornado has been withdrawn from ‘The Cathedrals Express’ tour on Saturday 23rd November 2013. During our usual examination and monitoring procedures it was identified that we would need to replace two firebox stays ahead of the next operation. Due to their location it is not possible to complete this work in the time before the run. Tornado was due to enter winter maintenance at Barrow Hill on Monday 25th November and this will take place as scheduled. Tornado will be deputised on ‘The Cathedrals Express’ by Britannia. We apologise for the disappointment that this will no doubt bring to those who were looking forward to travelling with Tornado on this occasion. Keep an eye on http://www.a1steam.com for Tornado’s 2014 tours. Tornado - five incredible years! Monday, 04 November 2013 11:29 The A1 Steam Locomotive Trust is today celebrating the fifth anniversary of Tornado's first main line outing on 4th November 2008. Since then Tornado has become one of the busiest steam locomotives on the Network Rail main line, having covered 70,000 miles since her completion at Darlington Locomotive Works. |
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| Author: | car57 [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
I am not sure what your point in posting this is, but she is worked mighty hard and very successfully. Mike Pannell |
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| Author: | 484Mike [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
Two stays! Wow! I have heard rumours, that one or two other steam locomotives have had some stays exchanged, which have never been to Meiningen before... In fact Tornado shows her boiler is working quite well. Mike |
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| Author: | daylight4449 [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
If I remember correctly when the boiler issue last surfaced, Tornado had run about 60,000 miles since construction in a four year period, so 15,000 miles/year. I don't think many engines run 15,000 miles a year in England, especially over here in the US. It makes sense that some stays would need to be replaced if they see that much wear and tear. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
Wouldn't the valid comparison be between Tornado and similar old school locomotives in revenue service? dave |
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| Author: | 484Mike [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
Dave wrote: Wouldn't the valid comparison be between Tornado and similar old school locomotives in revenue service? dave No. The comparison in this case can only be made between able and unable crews. Haven't we read in this forum about a US-built 2-8-0 WW2 class which was often performing heavy boiler problems? It was discussed that some problems of that class were due tu unfit crews in Europe. The very loco discussed here from Alaska, having had heavy issues after just a four-digit-miles, has always been in the US... Compared to that the Tornado is doing very well... Mike |
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
daylight4449 wrote: If I remember correctly when the boiler issue last surfaced, Tornado had run about 60,000 miles since construction in a four year period, so 15,000 miles/year. I don't think many engines run 15,000 miles a year in England, especially over here in the US. It makes sense that some stays would need to be replaced if they see that much wear and tear. Big difference Dylan. Mr. Austin is a boiler expert who, among other things, has his signature on the Form 4s of several locomotive. While that doesn't immunize him from being wrong, he studies these issues with a keen technical interest. He tends to know what he is talkng about. The original boiler issues with the A1 seem to deal more with German boiler practice. I invite you to look at previous posts on the issue. The search function is useful. Sit back, read, absorb, and even you might learn something. |
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| Author: | 484Mike [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
wilkinsd wrote: The original boiler issues with the A1 seem to deal more with German boiler practice. And these seem to have been resolved. Mike |
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
484Mike wrote: wilkinsd wrote: The original boiler issues with the A1 seem to deal more with German boiler practice. And these seem to have been resolved. Mike Are you willing to bet your reputation on that? I tend to think a more cautious "wait and see" approach is warranted. |
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| Author: | 484Mike [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
wilkinsd wrote: 484Mike wrote: wilkinsd wrote: The original boiler issues with the A1 seem to deal more with German boiler practice. And these seem to have been resolved. Mike Are you willing to bet your reputation on that? I tend to think a more cautious "wait and see" approach is warranted. I just say "that two stays in 60.000 miles" - if that is all - is a sign of neither bad craftsmanship nor of unkeen crews. Just have a look at how many stays might have been gone in locos of that size - with reknowned boiler designs - in steam days. The headline of this thread just reads like sort of "Meiningen - bashing". I am aware of lots of good and some not so good examples of Meiningen quality, with 3801 probably worst. Yet the Tornado boiler, as it is now, does simply not fit under that headline. Mike |
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| Author: | daylight4449 [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
wilkinsd wrote: daylight4449 wrote: If I remember correctly when the boiler issue last surfaced, Tornado had run about 60,000 miles since construction in a four year period, so 15,000 miles/year. I don't think many engines run 15,000 miles a year in England, especially over here in the US. It makes sense that some stays would need to be replaced if they see that much wear and tear. Big difference Dylan. Mr. Austin is a boiler expert who, among other things, has his signature on the Form 4s of several locomotive. While that doesn't immunize him from being wrong, he studies these issues with a keen technical interest. He tends to know what he is talkng about. The original boiler issues with the A1 seem to deal more with German boiler practice. I invite you to look at previous posts on the issue. The search function is useful. Sit back, read, absorb, and even you might learn something. I'm not discounting Mr. Austin's experience Dave. For any other locomotive, the "beating" (for lack of a better word) that Tornado has sustained in service would seemingly require more intensive repairs. You're right in saying I'm no expert, but from my perspective replacing a few stays every few thousand miles really shouldn't be unheard of... |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
484Mike wrote: Dave wrote: Wouldn't the valid comparison be between Tornado and similar old school locomotives in revenue service? dave No. The comparison in this case can only be made between able and unable crews. Haven't we read in this forum about a US-built 2-8-0 WW2 class which was often performing heavy boiler problems? It was discussed that some problems of that class were due tu unfit crews in Europe. The very loco discussed here from Alaska, having had heavy issues after just a four-digit-miles, has always been in the US... Compared to that the Tornado is doing very well... Mike I'm not sure I understand....in the UK many of the current crews were part of the old school steam crews - steam ran longer there than here, and much more extensively in preservation since. The difference would be in terms of the extent of repair necessary after however many miles of mainline passenger operation since the last overhaul. Sure, a couple stays in 60K is very little to expect to need attention compared to how we yanks beat the crap out of our steamers in revenue service, where whole fireboxes were considered consumable, much less stays. Comparisons with yank steamers sent over having crew familiarity problems compared to a standard and familiar British design replicated are not particularly enlightening. dave |
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| Author: | p51 [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
It's been pointed out already that there are lots of veteran steam crews from back when steam was running the mainlines in the UK. I'd assume many of them still have their wits and memories about them. Can I assume someone who ran Peppercorns in service originally has been asked these types of questions already? What would one of them say about this? Those people (and the shop men who worked on them) would the best judges on what is and isn't normal for Tornado today, wouldn't they? |
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
I'm curious if the modified their operating practices, including steam up and cool down after the boiler came back. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Tornado-Meiningen deja-vu??? |
Thanks P, that's my perspective...and I'm very interested in knowing how modern technology used in reproductions compares in service to original ways and means. How many miles since the boiler was reinstalled before two stays broke? Meiningen.....it would be interesting to know how many locomotive boilers they have built recently and if there's a pattern of difficulties inherent in their production. dave |
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