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 Post subject: 50 Years Later: What We Lost With Penn Station
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:34 am 

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Location: Chicago USA
http://www.thejournal.ie/penn-station-o ... 0-Nov2013/

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: 50 Years Later: What We Lost With Penn Station
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:26 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Searched the New York Times website, didn't see an article, but a mention was made with a link to The Atlantic Cities' article on the 50 year mark: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/arts-and-lifestyle/2013/10/10-gorgeous-nostalgic-photos-new-yorks-old-penn-station/7384/

The Atlantic Cities article has some of the photos included in the Journal article from the National Park Service's Historic American Buildings Survey, plus several additional views not included in the latter article.

For those who are interested in seeing all 22 photos from the HABS, here's the Library of Congress page: http://www.loc.gov/pictures/search/?q=Photograph:%20ny0411&fi=number&op=PHRASE&va=exact&co%20=hh&st=gallery&sg%20=%20true

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 Post subject: Re: 50 Years Later: What We Lost With Penn Station
PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:28 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
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Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Some more on the subject, including sad photos of the demolition of a building still magnificent in death:

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2013/10/2 ... tation.php

From an anonymous Commentor No. 13: "Irving Felt in 1962: 'Fifty years from now, when it's time for our center (the current MSG) to be torn down, there will be a new group of architects who will protest.'

"Not likely, Irving, not likely."

http://www.beyondthegildedage.com/2012/ ... ation.html

http://www.beyondthegildedage.com/2012/ ... ation.html


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 Post subject: Re: 50 Years Later: What We Lost With Penn Station
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 2101
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
I thought to check the Shorpy website for additional historic photos of Penn Station, and located eight.

Click each photo once to expand to full size.

Seven of the photos were the work of the Detroit Publishing Company:

One was taken during the excavation phase of construction:

1. http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY_4a22882a.jpg

Six were taken of the main concourse after completion of the station in 1910:

2. http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY_4a23719a.jpg

3. http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/4a19909a.jpg

4. http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY_4a23720a.jpg

5. http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/4a19910a.jpg

6. http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/4a19908a.jpg

7. http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/3c18801u1_0.jpg

The eighth photo was taken by Marjory Collins for the Office of War Information in August of 1942:

8. http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY_8d21791u.jpg

Enjoy the photos.

The Shorpy website: http://www.shorpy.com/

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 Post subject: Re: 50 Years Later: What We Lost With Penn Station
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:12 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:28 pm
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I can't get those photos to work

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 Post subject: Re: 50 Years Later: What We Lost With Penn Station
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:02 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 2557
Location: The Atlantic Coast Line
Fourteen of twenty-two stone eagles survive on display:
http://untappedcities.com/2013/06/27/daily-what-where-are-22-eagles-original-penn-station/

Here is a piece of sculpture used as an Eagle Scout fountain in Kansas City.
http://kcparks.org/2013/06/city-of-fountains-foundation-announces-first-major-donation-to-help-restore-one-of-kansas-citys-landmark-fountains/

Wesley


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 Post subject: Re: 50 Years Later: What We Lost With Penn Station
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:26 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2611
Location: S.F. Bay Area
J3a-614 wrote:
From an anonymous Commentor No. 13: "Irving Felt in 1962: 'Fifty years from now, when it's time for our center (the current MSG) to be torn down, there will be a new group of architects who will protest.'

"Not likely, Irving, not likely."

I was just watching a TV show about a band, may have been Pentatonix, who was charged with gravitas about what it would mean to perform at HISTORIC Madison Square Garden.

So I think you are out of luck.

Anyway, when the #1 on my hit parade actually did, it sucked all the fun out of maintaining a list of New York City's architectural abominations that I wished would go away.


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 Post subject: Re: 50 Years Later: What We Lost With Penn Station
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 68
Although Penn Station was lost, it was the public outcry of its destruction that saved Grand Central Station and other historic sites in the City of New York.

The "make a buck at all costs" crowd is still with us, but at least there are now State and Federal historic preservation laws that will at least hold to scrutiny any company or person who wants to destroy historic landmarks.

Through its death, Penn Station saved many historic treasures nationwide.


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 Post subject: Re: 50 Years Later: What We Lost With Penn Station
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:15 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:34 pm
Posts: 197
I am going to be somewhat of a heretic here. I think the demolition of Penn Station's most important role was indeed to preserve Grand Central (and to a lesser extent the Jersey Central and Lackawanna Terminals across the Hudson). There were many flaws with the design and concept of what Penn Station would be that were never resolved.

First is the location. From a practical point of view by the time Penn Station was constructed it would have been impossible to locate it in a more central location, say Herald Square. While building it in the Tenderloin District had the positive side effect of cleaning that area out, it still left Penn at a location really distant from the destinations people needed to go. The subway lines at the time were non-existent with the Broadway Line (today's 1 line) not opening until 1917. One wonders if there was ever a plan for a crosstown 34th Street subway line which could have helped the flow of people greatly.

Next is commuter traffic. The PRR didn't really see the coming of a large number of commuters to Penn. The LIRR saw this almost immediately, rather than the then traditional Brooklyn terminals for commuters. The same with New Jersey - Exchange Place in Jersey City was the traditional terminal for Northeast Corridor and NY&LB trains with the ferries and the "tubes" bringing the commuters to lower Manhattan. Even today you can observe a great number of people get off Penn Station bound trains at Newark to make the across the platform transfer to the tubes (today's PATH).

Finally I have always been amazed at how Grand Central has been able to handle the flow of people from its opening to today, from a mix of long distance trains to all commuter today, and with the PanAm building and its flow fitting in to the existing pedestrian patterns. Penn Station seemed to be designed for an era that was already fast slipping away by the day it opened. Over the years the various changes to the LIRR level and more recently the NJTransit "terminal" within the station all seem to be attempts to make the design work. Granted, the nature of the passageways created by the Madison Square Garden construction don't help, but I vaguely remember the bad flow of people zig zagging their way from the trains to the two major subway lines as well as to the then open corridor over to Herald Square and its subway lines. Even the choice of hotels at Penn (The Hotel Pennsylvania and the New Yorker) could never compete with the Biltmore the Commandor (and later the Waldorf) as the best NYC could offer.

If we could turn back time and save Penn Station I am sure we would, but perhaps it is worth thinking the unthinkable: perhaps Penn Station as conceived, built, and operated, was a failure.


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