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EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36000		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
Bumping this up as a separate thread from below:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35102&p=207875#p207875

Additional comment from the person (a RR official) forwarding the photos to me: "Scrap market is real hot now. These are the ex US army boxcars. Has something to do with sale of the EBT yards to Larry Salone and EBT RR Preservation."

There is a rumor that EBT hoppers could be next...........
Author:  Chris Webster [ Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
My understanding is that the scrapping occurred on the land that Larry Salone/East Broad Top Preservation Association has a $600,000 mortgage that is due in April 2014.
Author:  p51 [ Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
I refuse to toss out the old, "someone (other than myself, of course) should have saved them" card, but I am curious if there are any of these cars in preservation elsewhere? I just hope there's still one around somewhere...
Author:  Les Beckman [ Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
p51 wrote:
I refuse to toss out the old, "someone (other than myself, of course) should have saved them" card, but I am curious if there are any of these cars in preservation elsewhere? I just hope there's still one around somewhere...


Lee -

If I read the above report from ebtrr correctly, it sounded as if there were 15 cars in Mt. Union (now reported as scrapped) and about 8 "or so" cars in a place called Burnam. Not sure if those cars in Burnam still survive or not. Also not sure if Burnam is on the EBT, or somewhere else.

Les
Author:  kevin kohls [ Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
Les:
Make that Burnham, PA. It's located next to Lewistown. The Kovalchick's have a scrap yard next to The Standard Steel Works which at onetime belonged to BLW. Anyway, they had a row of those US Army wooden box cars, several Amtrak coaches that had been burned, a Orton locomotive crane, a WM VO- 660 #105, and a B&O ALCO S-2.

Kevin K.
Author:  Les Beckman [ Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
kevin kohls wrote:
Les:
Make that Burnham, PA. It's located next to Lewistown. The Kovalchick's have a scrap yard next to The Standard Steel Works which at onetime belonged to BLW. Anyway, they had a row of those US Army wooden box cars, several Amtrak coaches that had been burned, a Orton locomotive crane, a WM VO- 660 #105, and a B&O ALCO S-2.

Kevin K.


Kevin -

Thanks for info. I think there may have been a question earlier in this thread asking if these boxcars were second hand purchases of the USATC and if so, what was their original ownership history. I don't know if that ever was addressed.

Les
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
You know, museums have a mission to save SIGNIFICANT examples of technology... but these cars weren't particularly significant. And, many (most) museums try to collect from their geographic area... but the Bangor & Aroostook is about as obscure and as far away from anywhere as one can get. It's not like no one knew that these cars were there... everybody on this list has certainly known since the last time we discussed this last year.

While someone is likely to bemoan the fact that I'm going to say this again, YOU CAN'T SAVE EVERYTHING. If they were really important to someone, there would have been an effort to do so. Since there wasn't, I can only surmise no one thought they were particularly important.
Author:  p51 [ Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
Actually, US military railroads are important to people outside just the RR preservation field...
I wasn't thinking so much these specific cars more than I was hoping there is a good example of one somewhere in preservation. I wonder if the US Army transportation museum at Ft Eustis has one of these boxcars?
I don't think they all need to be saved, but it would be a shame if none ever got preserved and I think that's a fair point.
Author:  Tim Moriarty [ Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
I haven't been down to Fort Eustis for a couple of years, but I don't believe any of these boxcars exist in the Transportation Museum. It's a rather small collection and there's just no way the museum can feature more than a handful of cars and locomotives.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
My recollection of these cars from seeing them at Mount Union was that they were perhaps only a hair better assembled than, say, a Hollywood prop. I remember the plywood warping and buckling on the cars there quite badly, and in a sense I was surprised they had lasted as long as they did. The moss made for a passable "Army green."

If you secured the frame and trucks of one of these and tried to throw the box together out of Home Depot/Lowe's material, you might not be far off the mark. I exaggerate, but not by that much.
Author:  Stephen S. Syfrett [ Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
Can anyone who has actually seen and put hands on these USATC cars confirm or dispel the rumor I've been told that they had trucks with Central of Georgia Railway markings on them? Sometime soon after the last thread about the sale of EBT I was told that is what was under some, if not all, of the boxcars, but I've not been able to check them to see...too far away, and now apparently gone for good. Had a project I was involved with recently actually come to fruition, I was hoping to acquire and move 6-10 of these, but it didn't and I suspect the asking price would have been too silly to consider anyway. Still, if anyone knows one way or the other and can provide photographic evidence of same, I would appreciate the feedback. Thanks!
Author:  Mgoldman [ Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
Not sure why this thread was not instead bumped from the old thread vs starting a new one?

Anyway, I'm quite saddened by this turn of events. It was fascinating to see the cars as they were - left untouched for over a half a century. It was a real time trek to see them.

While a museum might have been the "proper" destination for these cars, it's just not the same to see freight cars in perfect condition sitting indoors. On the other hand, had they gone that route, they could've then been available for charters or special events for such a recreation. Short of a museum, they may have been able to restore the cars and leave them outdoors. Damn shame - there are few if any places in the US like the yard at Mount Union and it'll be a tragic loss should it become instead an empty yard - or worse, a Walmart.

I hope it is not the preservation society that is devouring the EBT in efforts to save a much smaller portion. It reminds me of the letters of donation I get in the mail which include nickels, dimes and calendars. Money spent on frivolous material and pocketed change - not where I want my donations dollars to go. Imagine - your donation dollars being used by a society that is scrapping the EBT to pay off it's own debt. BUT - I assume it is the "EBT" itself that is scrapping the cars? It's a bit of deja vu as if watching parts of the D&RG "circle" or Pennsylvania Station being destroyed all over again.

Who owns the cars (as opposed to the land). Who owns the building where the steam engine is stored? The steam engine itself?

Here are (I presume) the cars in question - look at the pics, you apparently will NEVER see them in person if the story holds true...

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/212386
Image

/Mitch
Author:  Les Beckman [ Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
From this thread, and the one it was spun off from, these USATC boxcars were described as former:

Boston & Maine
Missouri Pacific
Bangor & Aroostook
Central of Georgia

Apparently we'll never know now about the boxcars that were at Mt. Union, but I wonder now about the 8 or so cars described as still being at Burnham. Might there be some hope of saving an example or two of those cars?

Les
Author:  junior [ Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
There appears to be 2 ALCO's, the box cars in question and 3 passenger cars, on a siding just north of Freedom Avenue crossing in Burnham... opposite the Mill.... as of August 2012 imaging.
Author:  Mgoldman [ Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EBT USATC cars scrapped--hoppers to follow?
junior wrote:
There appears to be 2 ALCO's, the box cars in question and 3 passenger cars, on a siding just north of Freedom Avenue crossing in Burnham... opposite the Mill.... as of August 2012 imaging.


Google Satellite:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Burnham, ... 89,,2,1.41

/Mitch
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