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ATSF Mesa Verde
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36662		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  rock island lines [ Wed May 21, 2014 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  ATSF Mesa Verde
Noticed this ATSF high-level car listed on Ozark Mountain. It has a transition inside to mate with a normal coach apparently. Is that rare?
This link to Mid America Railcar says it was refurbished. I wonder if that means most of the original fixtures been all replaced with modern ones. Sounds like the car has been thoroughly rehabbed for excursion service.

http://www.midamericarailcar.com/pages/ ... verde.html

Ozark listing -
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/det ... -Verde-NEW
Author:  wilkinsd [ Wed May 21, 2014 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ATSF Mesa Verde
The Santa Fe Hi-Level cars came in three orders, the prototypes, the first order and a second order in the mid 1960s (1964)?

Each order contained a number of transition coaches, or step-up coaches, where each end was at a different level. I think some of the 1964 cars were "convertable" where they could be reconfigured as step up coaches, if need be.

Typically, the trains that used the Hi-Level cars, like the El Capitan and the SF Chief used a transition car at each end of the blocks of Hi-Level cars.

Amtrak converted many, if not all of the step up coaches into coach dorms.
Author:  rock island lines [ Wed May 21, 2014 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ATSF Mesa Verde
Thanks for the info, Mr Wilkins.
Author:  Rainier Rails [ Wed May 21, 2014 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ATSF Mesa Verde
El Capitan Hi-Levels:

There were a total of 73 Hi-Levels built between 1954 and 1964 by Budd in three orders: #129, #166, and #320. AT&SF sold all of the Hi-Levels to Amtrak in 1971, 70 of which were converted to Head End Power (HEP) under contract to Santa Fe at the Topeka Shops in 1980-1981.

Lot #9679-129 (1954) consisted of the two prototype "step down" or "transition" chairs, #526 and #527, neither of which were converted to HEP.

Lot #9679-166 (1956) consisted of ten "step down" chairs, #528-#537, all of which had dormitory space added during the HEP conversion.

Lot #9657-166 (1956) consisted of six club lounges, #575-#580. Five of these cars are now the "Pacific Parlours" for first class (sleeping) passengers on the Coast Starlight.

Lot #9668-166 (1956) consisted of six diners, #650-#655.

Lot #9670-166 (1956) consisted of 25 chairs, #700-#724, several of which were rebuilt to "step down" chair-dormitories during the HEP conversion.

Lot #9679-320 (1964) consisted of twelve "step down" chairs, #538-#549, all but one of which had dormitory space added during conversion to HEP.

Lot #9670-320 (1964) consisted of twelve chairs, #725-#736, all of which were rebuilt to "step down" chair-dormtories during the HEP conversion.

Amtrak sold the majority of the chairs and chair-dormitories in 2003 to various private owners and leasing groups. Several chairs had been modified for use on the Heartland Flyer and remained in service until 2007. Five of the club lounges were modified in 1995 to "Pacific Parlours" for first class use on the Coast Starlight and remain in service.

The car in question, Mid America's Mesa Verde, was built in 1964 as chair #735 (Lot #9670-320) sold in 1971 to Amtrak #9935, converted in 1981 to HEP step down chair-dormitory #39935, and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan-IFE Leasing. The Mesa Verde is the only Hi-Level car in post-Amtrak ownership that has met Amtrak's PC2 requirements, with registration number #800857.

Someone else can probably confirm this, but I'm guessing that Mesa Verde is still owned by Philip Sheridan-IFE Leasing and is simply leased to Mid-America for operation, and that IFE is the party that has put the car up for sale.

For more info on the Hi-Levels, see the "Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars" thread: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36584

Sources:

1. Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society passenger car roster pages: http://www.atsfrr.com/links/atsf/passenger.htm

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume Two: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

3. Phil Dohmen's Hi-Level page: http://www.trainweb.org/web_lurker/hllounge/

4. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)
Author:  Brian Norden [ Thu May 22, 2014 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ATSF Mesa Verde
Rainier Rails wrote:
El Capitan Hi-Levels:Lot #9679-129 (1954) consisted of the two prototype "step down" or "transition" chairs, #526 and #527, neither of which were converted to HEP.
The cross-section of these two cars was different from the production model. The upper-level windows slopped inward slightly and there was no overhead luggage racks. The only luggage space was downstairs on these cars. The rest of the Hi-Level chair cars were equipped with overhead luggage racks similar to conventional chair cars.

The Santa Fe made use of these cars; but, the difference explains why Amtrak did not convert the two cars.
Author:  Rainier Rails [ Thu May 22, 2014 12:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ATSF Mesa Verde
Thanks, Brian, for the info!
Author:  davew833 [ Thu May 22, 2014 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ATSF Mesa Verde
Gateway Rail (formerly ITAC) had the two prototype El Cap cars for sale for many years. I suspect they're still there being the oddballs that they are.
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