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Appropriate Paint Color for a 1911 B&O Depot
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36714		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  wvrail [ Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Appropriate Paint Color for a 1911 B&O Depot
Hello Everyone,

A group that I volunteer with spent this past weekend working on a former Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Depot in a small town in West Virginia. We do not own the depot but are sealing doors and windows and repainting it to preserve the building for a possible future re-use and to encourage CSXT to consider turning the building over for re-use. My question is this: What is the appropriate paint color for a 1911 B&O Depot on the Monongah Division? We can see that the building has worn many different colors during its lifetime and want to go to the authentic when-rebuilt color. If not, does anyone know the color for CSXT buildings circa 1996? If anyone knows the color or, better yet, Lowe's or Home Depot color paint code for these paints, please reply. Thank you very much for your time and consideration!

Sincerely,

Kent Walker
Author:  kevin kohls [ Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate Paint Color for a 1911 B&O Depot
I believe the paint scheme for that era was still red with black trim. Later, they were painted a yellow/cream with chocolate trim.

Kevin K.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate Paint Color for a 1911 B&O Depot
If no one with more authority says something, I'll ask one of the B&OHS reps on Wednesday, all going well.
Author:  nickbnwd [ Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate Paint Color for a 1911 B&O Depot
When the Beaver Lawrence RY Hist. Soc. restored B&O UN tower, we found four colors; which were from top to bottom, Chessie/CSX grey, Yellow-tan/brown (50s?), red (40's), and at the very bottom, and possibly primer, dark green. We decided on the yellow-tan since our building had an addition added and the earlier colors wouldn't have been accurate anyhow. When first done, we had a fairly 'yellow' yellow, and when it was repainted about 10 years later we had a more 'tan' yellow. You can see the original color in the link. My suggestion is to not worry too much about the proper shade, as it will fade quick enough.

http://www.blrhs.org/un_tower.htm
Author:  Randy Hees [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate Paint Color for a 1911 B&O Depot
I understand that this is a quick and dirty paint job to convince the railroad to save the building (and applaud that approach... Don't just ask the RR to save it... do something)

But... asking for paint colors on a national forum doesn't suggest a professional (not meaning paid, meaning understanding and educated in preservation) preservation approach.

Sanding through the layers of paint in a few areas should show the building's paint history, and allow you to choose appropriate colors. It only takes an exacto knife, a sheet or two of sand paper, 3 in one oil and a hand held magnifying glass...

Even if you use the paint formulas used by others, going through the motions to check the building for evidence gives your group respect as preservationists.

Randy
Author:  Dave [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate Paint Color for a 1911 B&O Depot
I second Randy's motion....and encourage you to prospect for color layers on the shady side of the building in sheltered areas where the layers of paint didn't fade or peel before being covered. Don't forget the trip and the siding were very likely different, so take a few samples here and there.

dave
Author:  Bobharbison [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate Paint Color for a 1911 B&O Depot
Randy Hees wrote:
Sanding through the layers of paint in a few areas should show the building's paint history, and allow you to choose appropriate colors. It only takes an exacto knife, a sheet or two of sand paper, 3 in one oil and a hand held magnifying glass...


I agree that trying the archival approach is best.

When you determine a color though, how do you find the correct shade? For example, let's say you determine that it's brown and yellow. OK, now what's the best method to find the correct shade of each?

All paints fade, some rather quickly. What starts as crimson red can turn into pink quickly.

Authentic Santa Fe colors anyone?

Image

BNSF orange?

Image
Author:  Dave [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate Paint Color for a 1911 B&O Depot
First, choosing a sheltered and shady location for layer analysis; second, the oil Randy refers to can darken the trapped paint layers pigments to something closely approximating the original tint. Since old paint formulas varied between batches much more than good quality modern paints, a close approximation is fine.

dave
Author:  Mr.Starr [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate Paint Color for a 1911 B&O Depot
Out of curiosity what do the photos of the SANTA FE GE DASH840BW and the bnsf GE have to do with this topic? I don't think The Baltimore and Ohio RR did not last long enough to have any GE DASH8-40's, or GE ES44's.

Mr. Starr
Author:  Randy Gustafson [ Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate Paint Color for a 1911 B&O Depot
Those would be considered to be epic examples of paint fade and color shift from the original applications at the factory, and evidence that archival color can lie as well in some cases due to environmental issues.

As I'm not far away from Erie, I can factually state that the contract company that did the "BNSF Peaches" (the nickname that those locomotives acquired when the pumpkin-orange BNSF faded to peach yellow in the period of about two years) went bankrupt when they were sued by GE to fix the faded paint, and then GE had to do warranty repaints....

Turns out that the contract company was a 'front' for another paint manufacturer that wanted to try their stuff out and it failed miserably.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand... Don't forget the railroad historical societies, and also the modelbuilders - who take color and scheme very seriously. While not a better substitute for real paint chip analysis on the real thing, you can use them as a source of validation in may cases if you're struggling. http://www.borhs.org/archives/archives.html
Author:  wvrail [ Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate Paint Color for a 1911 B&O Depot
Hello again,

Thank you to everyone for your replies and advice. It is generally much appreciated. In response to the preservation-orientation of the group; in it's defense, unlike the WVMOW Museum or others, the organization working on the depot is not a preservation group, but a community improvement group, so as Randy points out "quick and dirty" is a very accurate description, as the overall goal of the paint job is to protect the building and make it presentable until a railroad transfer for future sustainable re-use is secured. As the chairman of the organization and the primary representative of the county historical society in the organization, I have attempted to guide the efforts with some preservation of the fabric in mind. That said, my background is very limited in hands-on preservation and more focused on overall museum object care and management/boardsmanship. I know, getting verbose in the defense here, but that said, I am learning some of the hands-on as we go, and will attempt Randy's suggestion seconded by Dave in the near future. However, pressure-washing and scraping revealed that much of the building's life was spent in red. This coincides with a friend (who also happens to be a board member of the B&O Historical Society) pointing the correct colors for the period as Indian Red with black trim, as Kevin also suggested. We have very strong evidence of the red, though no exact shade, but have found little/no evidence of black on trim sections. The building wore most of the colors suggested by others on this forum during its lifetime, but the base layer is most definitely a red, and most likely an Indian red. We were rained upon after completing today's work of painting the trim and starting on the red and so photos were out of the question. We don't have an exact red match, but it does convey idea, and we are beginning to look at non-invasive ways to share the building's history while we wait on CSXT to "come around" on de-accessioning the building. I just wanted to give and update.

Regards,

Kent
Author:  Ray Reter [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate Paint Color for a 1911 B&O Depot
I applaud your group's effort to attempt to preserve and save a local railroad artifact before it disappears and becomes a memory. -- Ray
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