Close as I can get right now. Not the ad, but at least the quote.
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| SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36727 |
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| Author: | Steve Freer [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) |
The perfect day to resurrect this post: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35152\ Today marks the actual 50th Anniversary date of steam's reintroduction to Southern Railway, eleven years after "It has taken us 123 years to put out this fire." Ride the Steam Anniversary Special tomorrow* and you'll receive a nice little commemorative booklet. Kind of a "mini Steam's Camelot combined with Locomotive 4501", if you will. *tickets still available at http://tvrail.com/pages/21st-Century-Steam#Chattanooga |
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| Author: | superheater [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) |
, eleven years after "It has taken us 123 years to put out this fire." I assume this was a quote of some suit with a personal vendetta against steam. Sounds a little like quotes attributed to The Lehigh Valley's Cecil Major. |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) |
superheater wrote: , eleven years after "It has taken us 123 years to put out this fire." I assume this was a quote of some suit with a personal vendetta against steam. Sounds a little like quotes attributed to The Lehigh Valley's Cecil Major. That was Mr. D. W. Brosnan, President of the Southern Railway System. Southern was a modern railroad that looked to the future-steam did not fit the corporate image. That was the Southern's position from about 1920 onwards as no new steam locomotives were purchased after 1930. Brosnan had a vendetta against unprofitable railroading. |
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| Author: | tvrm349 [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) |
[quote="Alan Walker"][quote="superheater"], eleven years after "It has taken us 123 years to put out this fire." That was Mr. D. W. Brosnan, President of the Southern Railway System. Southern was a modern railroad that looked to the future-steam did not fit the corporate image. That was the Southern's position from about 1920 onwards as no new steam locomotives were purchased after 1930. Brosnan had a vendetta against unprofitable railroading.[/quote] Bro. Walker is seldom wrong, but it was Harry A. DeButts, not D.W. Brosnan, who said, "It has taken us 123 years to put out this fire." |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) |
tvrm349 wrote: Alan Walker wrote: superheater wrote: , eleven years after "It has taken us 123 years to put out this fire." That was Mr. D. W. Brosnan, President of the Southern Railway System. Southern was a modern railroad that looked to the future-steam did not fit the corporate image. That was the Southern's position from about 1920 onwards as no new steam locomotives were purchased after 1930. Brosnan had a vendetta against unprofitable railroading. Bro. Walker is seldom wrong, but it was Harry A. DeButts, not D.W. Brosnan, who said, "It has taken us 123 years to put out this fire." You're right. It was President Harry A. DeButts who said that, but he and Brosnan were both of the same school of thought. |
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| Author: | Steve Freer [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) |
Does anyone have an image of the SR ad in question? |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) |
Steve Freer wrote: Does anyone have an image of the SR ad in question? Steve, I have a copy of the ad. I can scan it and e-mail it to you if you'd like, but I'll have to dig it out of my stash of stuff. Actually, I think I have it in a binder along with other materials that I used for my book. I also have a color photograph of the 6330 with the Best Friend and the diesels that Herman took from the old Third Street bridge. |
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| Author: | Steve Freer [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:06 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) | ||
Close as I can get right now. Not the ad, but at least the quote.
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| Author: | Howard P. [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) |
Say what you will about Brosnan (and there's plenty-- makes for some very interesting reading), he stands out (for me) for two things: "Big John"-- which is probably one of the 5 most significant pieces of equipment at Spencer. It ultimately lead to de-regulation and the renaissance of freight railroading. Taking a chance on a worn-out old 2-8-2 and a VP who was a railfan--- 4501's ferry trip from Stearns to Chattanooga, which was proposed to Big Bill by W. Graham Claytor. The trip was a success, and the steam program made history. I wonder what would have happened if 4501 had broken down completely and really tied up the CNO&TP? Would WGC have still been working for Southern? Brosnan was such a pioneer in other ways, especially MOW. Howard P. |
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| Author: | 10stewi [ Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:48 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) | ||
Here is a copy of the add I have scanned from my collection. Yet again it dosent feature the exact same quote, but we are getting closer!
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) |
Howard P. wrote: Say what you will about Brosnan (and there's plenty-- makes for some very interesting reading), he stands out (for me) for two things: "Big John"-- which is probably one of the 5 most significant pieces of equipment at Spencer. It ultimately lead to de-regulation and the renaissance of freight railroading. Taking a chance on a worn-out old 2-8-2 and a VP who was a railfan--- 4501's ferry trip from Stearns to Chattanooga, which was proposed to Big Bill by W. Graham Claytor. The trip was a success, and the steam program made history. I wonder what would have happened if 4501 had broken down completely and really tied up the CNO&TP? Would WGC have still been working for Southern? Brosnan was such a pioneer in other ways, especially MOW. Howard P. "Big John" was huge. I have a pile if research I culled from various sources on the subject. One day, I'd like to turn it into an article. |
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) |
Brosnan, besides waging a war on unprofitable railroading, was adept at the art of throwing "red meat" to the trade press and whomever would listen. In research, I found really good quotations from him, as he realized he could be an effective communicator on behalf of Southern and its case. Brother Pincus and I talked about Brosnan once, and he concluded that working for Brosnan was probably a lot like working for Alec Baldwin's character in Glengarry Glen Ross. Brosnan delegated most of the fact finding on how to turn the Southern into a more modern, profitable railroad to "study groups." In particular, one study group focused on new, modern freight car types, and another tackled how to perform MOW more efficiently. Stanley Crane, who later headed Southern and Conrail was in the group that developed the Big John concept. It is important to remember that the Big John cars themselves were not the basis of the legal challenges the Southern faced. Since the cars were cheaper to load and unload, compared to a boxcar with grain doors, and more could be hauled, Southern wanted to discount rates to pass their savings along to the customers. The Tennessee Valley Authority ("TVA") and the American Waterways Organization ("AWO") were the two principal interests that challenged the Southern on the Big John rates. However, the Southern figured out it wasn't really the barge operators who were the ones who had most of the grain hauling business in the south. The biggest competitor to the Southern were "gypsy truckers" who operated outside the norm of ICC motor carrier regulations. Still, the TVA and AWO put up most of the regulatory fight. In particular, TVA and AWO argued that Southern couldn't be making money on the new rates, and they were instead a ploy to put the competitors out of business, and afterwards raise them. When asked about this, Brosnan said: "Neither McCarthy (General Counsel of the TVA) nor anyone else at TVA has any real knowledge of Southern's cost of furnishing this service. TVA has apparently been suckered into playing a puppet role for a few big private interests who use its $200 million taxpayer-built waterway system as a means of ringing up exorbitant profits." The Big John case went to the Supreme Court twice, and was the longest, most expensive rate challenge ever litigated before the Interstate Commerce Commission. Southern paid dearly to get its way, but the challenge highlighted a big problem with the ICC. The ICC was often more concerned about artificially maintaining competition or appeasing other interests, than allowing railroads to operate in a way which would be profitable in a changing business environment. In many ways, Big John was the beginning of the end of the ICC, and helped spawn the Staggers Act, signed into law in 1980 and the eventual dissolution of the ICC. |
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| Author: | Alan Walker [ Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) |
 I thought the crowd might like to see another, color view of the event. This photograph was taken by good friend and founding member of the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum, the late Mr. Herman Lamb. Herman took the photo from the old Third Street Bridge-long since replaced with an ugly concrete bridge. I have seen many other photographs of the event, but this is the only color one that I know of. Herman and his wife Dottie both ran a photography shop in Chattanooga. For those of us who remember Herman and Dottie, Herman would work out of the East Chattanooga depot and always had a box of photographs for sale. This was one of his photographs and one that I purchased from him for what now seems to be pennies on the dollar. All sorts of photographs passed through that box, from ordinary photos of freight cars to locomotive builder's photographs, train wrecks and this. |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) |
Great color photo of the event! Boy, sure wish the Southern had preserved the 6330! This is the first I have noticed the single air tank on top of the boiler of the Mike. It appears to "split" the sand dome. Is this right? Very unusual arrangement I think. Les |
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| Author: | Kevin Gilliam [ Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SR Steam ~ 50 years ago (from one year ago) |
Les Beckman wrote: Great color photo of the event! Boy, sure wish the Southern had preserved the 6330! This is the first I have noticed the single air tank on top of the boiler of the Mike. It appears to "split" the sand dome. Is this right? Very unusual arrangement I think. Les Les, It's a movable smoke deflector. Many engines on the CNO&TP had them. Designed to funnel the smoke back over and beyond the cab when going through the then-numerous tunnels. Kevin |
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