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Pressed Glass Window Replacements
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36842		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  summerj [ Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Pressed Glass Window Replacements
I have a restoration project that requires Frisco pressed glass windows to be recreated. Does anyone have any knowledge of someone capable of making replacement windows or methods you may have used to simulate the look?

Thanks!
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pressed Glass Window Replacements
I don't know which restoration group you are with, so don't know if this is an acceptable substitution or not, but one could get the general look with etching. I believe most glass is etched these days via sandblast rather than acid etched, if that makes any difference. Anyway, I see enough etched panels in restaurants and the like that shops that can do custom work must be relatively common.

Now comes the question, which part of the design should be etched, and which clear? Model makers have been using white decals to represent the raised parts of the design (faux lead cames, I suppose) but that has never appeared right to me. I seem to recall that the field of a pressed glass pane looks frosted, while the faux cames look clear, but maybe that is just me.

Now, it will be interesting to see if there is a way to get actual pressed glass made today.
Author:  Becky Morgan [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pressed Glass Window Replacements
Island Mould and Machine in Wheeling, WV has done a lot of repro work. Their website seems to be down, but their page on http://discover.mfg.com/en/suppliers/Island-Mould-and-Machine-Co-Inc-829167 says that
Quote:
Island Mould & Machine Co., Inc. has been making moulds for the glass industry since 1939. We specialize in one of a kind prototypes or small runs that require quality precision machining.
Between that and the references to 3D printing, they must still be in business. It might be worth a call to see what they say, because if they don't do the work, odds are they know someone who does.
Author:  fkrock [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pressed Glass Window Replacements
When the company that made most of the pressed glass windows went out of business, the molds were sold for scrap metal.

I have seen fairly good looking simulations made by making a silicone mold from an original window and then using it to make a very thin plastic casting that is laminated to glass. How well it will survive sunlight in outdoor storage is unknown to me.

You also could make a pattern from wood or plastic and use that to fabricate a silicone mold.
Author:  Steve Zarick [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pressed Glass Window Replacements
I'm not familiar with the Frisco pressed glass windows. But I just bought doors and sidelights for my house with pressed glass privacy windows, and I'm wondering if this is similar to what you'd be looking for.
Author:  rea_reefwagon [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pressed Glass Window Replacements
The organization I am with needs reproduction window glass too. I don't know if it is "pressed glass", but etching won't cut it because it is a pattern of squares with some depth in to the glass. I don't think etching would have the right texture either.
Author:  wilkinsd [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pressed Glass Window Replacements
I believe the term of art used for what is desired is called "pressed prisim glass." There were a couple of companies that made this stuff, and it had railroad usage, typically the frosted glass in some restrooms, or arch windows on some late wood/early steel cars.

The old Car Builders' Cyclopedia of the 1930s and 1940s have the manufacturers listed, but once, on a whim, I couldn't find these companies still in business.

Which begs a question, I wonder if CAD or rapid prototyping can be used to replicate the "look" of pressed prisim glass on a plexi-glass type surface.
Author:  Topfuel [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pressed Glass Window Replacements
I have been fascinated by prism glass used in passenger cars for years, and regret that, as already noted, this type of glass seems to have gone out of production at least 45 years ago or so.

One of the principal suppliers of this glass was named, of all things, the Pressed Prism Plate Glass Company, and if I remember correctly, was based out of the Morgantown, WV area, which evidently was once a hotbed of glass production up until the 1960's.

I have seen at least one reference to the familiar type of prism glass used mostly for restroom windows in lightweight passenger cars as the "Streamline" pattern.

One interesting aspect of this glass, as used in a typical post-war double-glazed Adlake sash unit, is that the prism glass was the OUTSIDE pane, with the pressed prism surface facing inward and the smooth surface facing outward. Then, the standard 1/4" laminated safety glass was installed as-usual, as the INSIDE pane. All well and good, apparently, until kids started becoming fond of throwing rocks at trains. Then your irreplaceable, beautiful prism glass restroom windows were now on the front line, so to speak (being the outer, and thus more vulnerable, pane), and would be the first to break in the event of an unfortunate meeting with a vandal's projectile. Thus, one might consider swapping any remaining prism glass windows on existing cars to the inside pane, just to be safe.

At any rate, if any of the creative minds here at RYPN have any additional ideas on how to replicate these classic pressed prism glass windows, please let us passenger cars fans know.
Author:  Dave [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pressed Glass Window Replacements
I'm wondering if there's a clear plastic sheet that can be vacuum formed? If so, perhaps it could also be pressed into a 3D printed platen when hot and plastic to create a replica of the pressed glass.......laminating this onto a flat sheet of safety glazing could provide the required appearance as well as regulatory compliance.

dave
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pressed Glass Window Replacements
Topfuel wrote:
...

One of the principal suppliers of this glass was named, of all things, the Pressed Prism Plate Glass Company, and if I remember correctly, was based out of the Morgantown, WV area, which evidently was once a hotbed of glass production up until the 1960's.



I suspect the OP is looking specifically for this pattern, shown in the vendor section of the Pressed Prism Plate Glass Company in the 1946 Car Builder's Cyclopedia.

ImageFriscoglass

I suggested etching because one could obtain the general look with easily available technology. One could also make a mold of an existing pane, if one was available, or draw it in 3-D CAD and machine a pattern. The question becomes, what material to cast it from that is clear and will remain so when exposed to the weather.

For that matter, it could likely be machined directly into clear Lexan (polycarbonate) sheet, which is commonly used for impact resistant glazing, so should hold up, but it's not going to be cheap.
Author:  summerj [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pressed Glass Window Replacements
Thank you for the responses and leads to everyone who has replied so far. I am attaching a photo of the window we are looking to reproduce. The window would be put into active service on Frisco Coach 1062 located at the Heart of Dixie Railroad Museum in Calera, Alabama. The car is next in line for a much needed cosmetic restoration. The restoration will include replacing all of the windows in the car. We would like to put these windows in the lavatories on each end of the car. We would like to find a way to have the window made out of safety glass since the car will be used and is out in the open.

This may be a lost art in this day in age, but we would like to have the restoration of the car to have as many of the original elements as possible.

You can see and read more about the coach's history on the museum's website:
[url]http://www.hodrrm.org/body.cfm?id=110[/url]

Thanks again everyone!

Attachments:
File comment: Frisco window pattern I'm looking to reproduce.
IMG_9594.jpg
IMG_9594.jpg [ 323.56 KiB | Viewed 12021 times ]
Author:  summerj [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pressed Glass Window Replacements
Thanks Dennis! Now I know the name of what I'm trying to reproduce! I uploaded a photo of the window we would like to have remade and it is identical to your picture.


[quote="Dave"]I'm wondering if there's a clear plastic sheet that can be vacuum formed? If so, perhaps it could also be pressed into a 3D printed platen when hot and plastic to create a replica of the pressed glass.......laminating this onto a flat sheet of safety glazing could provide the required appearance as well as regulatory compliance.

dave[/quote]
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pressed Glass Window Replacements
So, you DO have an intact window. As was mentioned above, the obvious course of action is to make a mold and replicate it.

A little bit of Googling brought up a web site for Smooth-On crystal clear urethane resin:

http://www.smooth-on.com/index.php?cPath=1120_1156

I've used Smooth-On products before (but not the clear resin) with good results. They claim that the cured resin is UV resistant, and the people who restored the "Red bus" fleet for Glacier Nat'l Park seem to agree:

http://www.smooth-on.com/gallery.php?galleryid=232

I suspect the way to ensure the finished windows hold up in service is to back them up with actual tempered glass; also mount them in the inner sash so real glass in the storm sash protects them from the weather.
Author:  Jim Herron [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pressed Glass Window Replacements
I have two of those Frisco windows that came from an ex-SLSF car owned by Royal American Shows. However, I don't want to sell them. Just letting you know that at least two others exist.

If the car were mine, I would duplicate the window in whatever way is best and store the original in a safe place. With all the vandalism today, I just wouldn't want to risk losing the originals. These things, especially with a railroad herald in them, are rare. The Frisco windows are the only ones I've personally seen. Does anyone know what other railroads might have bought similar ones?

-JH
Author:  Howard P. [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pressed Glass Window Replacements
NYNH&H used these as well, in 1930 Osgood Bradley coaches and smokers.

RMNE will eventually have to replicate some of them and we're interested in how this all turns out.

Howard P.
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