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Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37047		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  BerwickRailFan [ Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
First let me say this is a great place for research and information. Now on to my request: I'm working on a project about the Carroll Park and Western Railroad that operated in Bloomsburg, Pa, back in the 60's and 70's. I'm putting together a roster of the equipment that was there and am looking for more info to it to confirm what was actually there. I'm also looking for old photos of the equipment. Any help would be greatly appriciated and I give a thanks in advance.

#117 0-4-0 Locomotive with tender
#3 Climax Locomotive
#32 Combination
#33 Coach
#509 Newfoundland Coach
#502 Newfoundland Coach
#X-34 C&O Camp Car - Kitchen Car
#X-471 C&O Camp Car - Diner Car
# XXX C&O Caboose (?)
#200 PRR 4 Wheel Caboose
#100 “Alice May” PRR Business Car
# XXX Coco Bean Wooden Hopper (don’t know how many – possible 3)
#25 Brownhoist Steam Crane
#205 Speeder “Fire Patrol”
#XXX Speeder
#XXX Speeder
#XXX Speeder
#303 MoW Trailer (there were at least 2 others if not more)
#XXX Steel Hopper
#XXX Flat Car
#XXX ATSF End Cupola Caboose (?)
Author:  Frank J. DeStefano [ Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
I became interested in this old operation after seeing the equipment featured in "The Molly Maguires" film. There's the following website if you don't already know about it: http://berwickrailfan.webs.com/brwkrfcarrollparkRR.htm

Other than that, google searches yield few results. It apparently wasn't in business for very long and I imagine the film didn't do much to popularize the line considering it was a financial flop (pretty good movie though if you appreciate history and don't mind the strong cynical nature of its thematic material).
Author:  crij [ Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
Are either of these sites yours?

http://www.berwickrailfan.webs.com/brwk ... parkRR.htm

http://www.pvillage.com/ (website is broken, or under construction)

Regards,
Rich C.
Author:  Bobharbison [ Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
I seem to recall it's been discussed before, but I'm still a bit vague on the whole 4 foot gauge concept. So the first engine he purchased was 4 foot gauge? Why build to such an odd gauge. I understand 3 foot, smaller, save costs. But by the time you get to 4 foot, you're pretty much at standard gauge. Why not just go a bit wider?

As for the CP&W, did he convert all of his equipment to 4 foot gauge? How much of it was originally that gauge?
Author:  Frank J. DeStefano [ Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
crij wrote:
Are either of these sites yours?

http://www.berwickrailfan.webs.com/brwk ... parkRR.htm

http://www.pvillage.com/ (website is broken, or under construction)

Regards,
Rich C.


I apologize if my post suggested the website was my own. No, I just found it through some online searching after I saw the movie.

As for the oddball gauge, I believe one of the websites goes into some detail as to its origin and why it was chosen.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
The PRR, C&O, etc. equipment was not converted to 4' gauge, but served merely as static displays.

My understanding--and Brothers Laepple, Salomon, etc. will have to correct me if needed--is that Stahl acquired the 117 and several bits of rolling stock--little more than trucks and/or frames--from the Jeddo-Highland Coal Co. at Jeddo, a tiny hamlet east of Hazleton, Pa. when that company switched to a GE 35-ton standard-gauge switcher ca. 1955. (A successor Jeddo Coal Co. still strip-mines in the area, and the abandoned GE was still on site at late as 2010.) Stahl supposedly acquired the Climax from W.M. Ritter's successor Georgia-Pacific around 1962, and it's much easier to regauge a geared loco than a side-rod one, so #3 was regauged at the Buffalo Creek & Gauley prior to being sent to the CP&W on a flat car.......

I've seen photos of the Newfie coaches in use on trains, so I assume they regauged them with Jeddo trucks or whatnot. The other "narrow-gauge" equipment was simply the cars built on Jeddo gear for the "Molly Maguires" movie.....
Author:  BerwickRailFan [ Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
crij wrote:
Are either of these sites yours?

http://www.berwickrailfan.webs.com/brwk ... parkRR.htm

http://www.pvillage.com/ (website is broken, or under construction)

Regards,
Rich C.


Yes, the http://www.berwickrailfan.webs.com/brwk ... parkRR.htm is part of my Berwick RailFan Photo Galelry website.

The second website (http://www.pvillage.com/index2.asp) is owned by another local individual but hasn't been updated in years.

The CP&W was 4 ft guage becasue that was the gauge of the No #117 Locomotive which was the first piece of equipment Carroll Stahl had bought.

I've had an interst in the CP&W for years now growing up in the local area, but was born too late to actually visit when it was in operation. I've been there several times aftwards when it was a flea market and even just this morning and yesturday as I drive by it to work and home everyday.

Attached is a photo I toom this morning on the way to work of the sun rising over the old CP&W Station. The second photo I took last night on the way home from work as North Shore Railroad #1940 passes the CP&W Deadwood Flats station. Thanks for the info so far. I look forward to hearing more.

Attachments:
FB-Sunriceoverdeadwoodflats.jpg
FB-Sunriceoverdeadwoodflats.jpg [ 201.38 KiB | Viewed 14603 times ]
FB-CPW-NSHR1940.jpg
FB-CPW-NSHR1940.jpg [ 160.99 KiB | Viewed 14608 times ]
Author:  crij [ Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
Frank J. DeStefano wrote:
crij wrote:
Are either of these sites yours?

http://www.berwickrailfan.webs.com/brwk ... parkRR.htm

http://www.pvillage.com/ (website is broken, or under construction)

Regards,
Rich C.


I apologize if my post suggested the website was my own. No, I just found it through some online searching after I saw the movie.

As for the oddball gauge, I believe one of the websites goes into some detail as to its origin and why it was chosen.



Frank, Question about either website was for the original poster. Looks like we were writing responses at the same time.

Rich C.
Author:  G. W. Laepple [ Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
In addition to the equipment listed above, there were also a couple of wooden DL&W cabooses and a homemade wooden boxcar. The boxcar wasn't homemade by the CP&W; it came from somewhere else. The two wooden passenger cars were built by Carroll Stahl, starting out with the frames of a couple more DL&W cabooses. Stahl was a very proficient carpenter who made his fortune building and selling homes in "Carroll Park," a nearby housing development.

Oh, yes, regarding the four-foot gauge matter. Engine No. 117 was from Jeddo-Highland Coal Co., which was once served by the four-foot gauge Delaware Susquehanna & Schuylkill RR, built by the Coxe family, which had extensive coal holdings in that corner of Carbon County, Pa. Chartered in 1890, the DS&S was acquired by the Lehigh Valley RR in 1905, which promptly standard gauged or abandoned oddball trackage. It was never more than about 40 miles in total, and was built in an attempt to reach the Reading and PRR to break the LV's monopoly on coal traffic around Hazleton.

The story I heard directly from one of Carroll Stahl's employees was that he found No. 117 in a scrap yard and bought it on the spot. He then measured the distance between the wheels with a stick and proceeded to build track to that gauge. Imagine how surprised he was when his first piece of standard gauge equipment arrived (the PRR bobber cabin car) and it didn't fit the track! He engaged a local machine shop to regauge some EBT trucks by sawing the axle in two and welding a piece of pipe in the center and made new bolsters out of steel shapes.
Author:  BerwickRailFan [ Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
Thanks for the info everyone. So to the original roster list I posted I should add the DL&W Cabooses and the box car. Anyone have any idea of the road numbers for them or have photos?

#XXX - DL&W Caboose (How Many)
#XXX - Box Car

Also does anyone remember ever seeing a C&O caboose there? It was numbered A549 (see photo).

Attachments:
CO-A549.jpg
CO-A549.jpg [ 111.44 KiB | Viewed 14333 times ]
Author:  G. W. Laepple [ Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
The two DL&W cabooses I mentioned above must have been among Stahl's earliest acquisitions. Both were very weathered, and I don't recall even seeing lettering or numbers on them. The homemade boxcar was painted gray but had no lettering at all. I believe it was more like a shed built on a flatcar, as I recall stake pockets along the sides of the car. And I do recall that C&O caboose, much the worse for the wear, at the site.

I made my first visit to the CP&W in the spring of 1964, and I occasionally worked there during the years I attended Bloomsburg State College (now University) and up until the time of Stahl's death in June, 1972. I also recall seeing the Climax on a flatcar on a Reading freight along the Catawissa Branch on July 4, 1963. I remember that date because I was attending an annual picnic at the family farm near Ringtown.
Author:  fmilhaupt [ Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
BerwickRailFan wrote:
Also does anyone remember ever seeing a C&O caboose there? It was numbered A549 (see photo).


'quite the week for PM cabooses here, with three coming up in conversation.

A564 was a former PM caboose, built in 1912.

I'll have to add the CP&W to the list of subsequent owners of PM cabooses.
Author:  Alan Maples [ Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
I acquired some CP&W slides through ebay a while back. The photographer is not identified. Here is another view of the PM/C&O caboose.

Alan Maples

Attachments:
Carroll Park & Western A549 1968 photographer unknown Alan Maples collection.jpg
Carroll Park & Western A549 1968 photographer unknown Alan Maples collection.jpg [ 292.26 KiB | Viewed 13977 times ]
Author:  Les Beckman [ Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
Alan -

And the picture includes the steel hopper car mentioned at the beginning of this thread!
Obviously a twin bay car and now gone for sure, but memories of the long running thread on these open top hoppers. Wonder what the LCG&E stood for?

Les
Author:  Alan Maples [ Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carroll Park and Western Railroad Roster?
G. W. Laepple wrote:
The homemade boxcar was painted gray but had no lettering at all. I believe it was more like a shed built on a flatcar, as I recall stake pockets along the sides of the car.


Here is a photo of the boxcar referred to by Brother Laepple. Again, photographer is not identified on the slide.

Alan Maples

Attachments:
Carroll Park & Western boxcar 1968 photographer unknown Alan Maples collection.jpg
Carroll Park & Western boxcar 1968 photographer unknown Alan Maples collection.jpg [ 201.2 KiB | Viewed 13914 times ]
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