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CRI&P 2500 series platform sagging
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37060		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Bulby [ Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  CRI&P 2500 series platform sagging
It is my understanding that all surviving Chicago, Rock Island, and Pacific 2500 series commuter cars suffer platform sagging to some extent or another.

However, I have yet to hear what would be considered reasonable sagging and where the line would be drawn as excessive.

Can anyone that operates a 2500 series car comment on what would be a reasonable level of sagging, and potentially what a effective fix would be in the event that sagging exceeds reasonable limits? I'm not looking for how to necessarily make it like new, but at least bring a sagging platform up about 4-5 inches while not doing anything drastic.
Author:  rock island lines [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRI&P 2500 series platform sagging
Perhaps the question can be broadened to any suburban coach platform of that era. Who here can offer ideas to Mr. Bulby and Mr. Rwkpullman, who is working miracles over there at IRM putting these coaches into service.
Author:  Bulby [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRI&P 2500 series platform sagging
rock island lines wrote:
Perhaps the question can be broadened to any suburban coach platform of that era. Who here can offer ideas to the Mr Bulby and Mr Rwkpullman, who is working miracles over there at IRM putting these coaches into service.


I will add this specifically:

The reason for asking this question is that former CRI&P 2555 is sagging beyond what I (and others) would consider reasonable, and has been bad-ordered pending repair or retirement from use. This car has sagged more than the 5 others at IRM for a long time and it has gotten worse.

I do not want to see the car retired from use or used for parts, but as it sits it is not safe for use.

If 2555 is repaired, IRM could again operate a 5 car CRIP commuter consist.
Author:  daylight4449 [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRI&P 2500 series platform sagging
Is there any chance there's a picture or diagram of how the end platforms connect to the cars? My thought would be to disconnect the platform, level it out in relation to the rest of the car, reconnect it to the car and then add reinforcements to the connections (i.e. weld on some steel plates) to better hold the weight of the platform. It sounds to me like it might just be material fatigue...
Author:  Ted Anderson [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRI&P 2500 series platform sagging
This is in answer on how to repair CRI&P series 2500 cars. These cars were built by Standard Steel Car Company in 1927. Since Standard Steel Car drawings exist at the IRM's Pullman Library, a more professional start to repair sagging platforms due to corrosion might be to obtain the relevant drawings. We have original SSC drawings at the Pullman Library or some might be available as originals or as copies from the Pennsylvania State Archives, Harrisburg. This is generally a sound approach before effecting any repairs. Perhaps someone in the Coach Department can respond on these or on the Standard Steel Lackawanna cars for which we have also supplied drawings. Repairs generally involve cutting out the rusted components and welding in replacements as one wishes to return the car to its original, structurally sound condition. Patching with a plate might lead to more problems in the long run. Members of the IRM Coach Department are in a much better position to answer the question of repairs. For drawings, we can be reached at:
Pullman Library
Illinois Railway Museum
P. O. Box 427
Union, IL 60180
pullmanlibrary@irm.org
Note that drawings are supplied at nominal charge despite lengthy searches in the Pullman Library collections. The cost of drawings supports operation of the Library for this 100% volunteer activity.
Sincerely, Ted Anderson - Pullman Library curator
Author:  Bulby [ Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRI&P 2500 series platform sagging
Ted, you have a PM.

Dylan, I will see about photos of Rock Island car platforms. I doubt that welding reinforcement plates would be the best option. I suspect that material is wasted somewhere, but innocent until proven guilty. The car was bad-ordered and has yet to be inspected completely.

The connections were designed strong enough to last this long. That car is almost 90 years old.

Some discussion was given to jacking the end to level very slowly and then examining the car/potentially reinforcing between the platform and walls/roof, but I'm not sure I'd want to cold-bend metal like that.
Author:  dinwitty [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRI&P 2500 series platform sagging
Google searching images aint helping yet, but whatever it will need frame re-inforcement.

If the platforms are riveted in, may be rusty rivets going. I might suggest soft lifting them for now, for safety and maybe a minor slow nudge correction but sounds like major fixing to me.

pics would be good.
Author:  Dave [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRI&P 2500 series platform sagging
Oh for chrissake....GIGO.

Real information is required to produce real answers. Get Ted's drawings, do a real inspection to determine the failures responsible, then work out a way to use the information in the drawings to remediate the failures.

If all you can do is recreate them according to the drawings, you know that's good for another 90 years, so it will probably be good enough.

dave
Author:  dinwitty [ Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CRI&P 2500 series platform sagging
There are things to think about and try to test concepts, being 90 years old seeing active duty you have to think about the metal used, construction, the possibility of metal fatigue...switching cars, coupling at perhaps higher than rated speed slamming cars harder than necessary at times, placement in the train where stresses were harder on this car, etc etc, this all pops/bumps metal around. Ask me having been in an accident with a Checker car and I worked on restoring it, I see it directly.
I'll give you some helpful leads to look.
Author:  David Johnston [ Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CRI&P 2500 series platform sagging
The cause of the sagging needs to be determined and the cars condition evaluated to determine if it is suitable for operation. But to answer the original question more specifically, it would probably be either coupler height or buffer height that would set a hard limit on platform sag.
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