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0-12-0 C
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Author:  superheater [ Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  0-12-0 C
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Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 0-12-0 C
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/0-12-0/?page=pr
Author:  Tavor [ Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 0-12-0 C
A sister locomotive worked for many years on a steep incline in Indiana and is preserved to this day. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuben_Wells_(locomotive)
Author:  wilkinsd [ Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 0-12-0 C
The Reuben Wells is not really a "sister locomotive." It is an 0-10-0T and was built in the company shops of The Jeffersonville, Madison & Indianapolis Railroad for the famous "Madison Hill" a 5.89% grade down into Madison, Indiana. The locomotive was built in 1868 and had a rather long service life.

Even in later steam days, the PRR used special 2-8-0T locomotives that always operated on the downhill side of the train, no matter if it was going up the hill or down it.
Author:  Lincoln Penn [ Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 0-12-0 C
wilkinsd wrote:
The Reuben Wells is not really a "sister locomotive." It is an 0-10-0T and was built in the company shops of The Jeffersonville, Madison & Indianapolis Railroad for the famous "Madison Hill" a 5.89% grade down into Madison, Indiana. The locomotive was built in 1868 and had a rather long service life.

Even in later steam days, the PRR used special 2-8-0T locomotives that always operated on the downhill side of the train, no matter if it was going up the hill or down it.



And in diesel years they had a pair of heavily-ballasted and low-geared SD7's assigned to that run. Those were special ordered by PRR for the hill and survived well into PC days.
Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 0-12-0 C
Jeff Lisowski wrote:
While not quite in the same design, this must have been something else to see as well.

Never knew this engine was around until about 2 weeks ago in Pennsylvania.

And in surprisingly good shape cosmetically.

DM&IR 0-10-2
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopi ... x?id=31425


Jeff -

Locomotives were built by Baldwin for the Union Railroad in 1936 and 1937. The story as I heard it written was that the engines were supposed to be 2-10-2's but were too long for URR turntables, so were delivered without the pony truck. Transferred in 1949 upon dieselization of the URR to sister U.S. Steel railroad Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range.
When the DM&IR finally dieselized, one of the 0-10-2's was sent "back home" for preservation. Info I have is that the 0-10-2 that went back was DM&IR 603, ex-URR 303. Note that this engine has been numbered as DM&IR 604. Wonder if that is accurate? The Union "side" of the engine doesn't show a number in any of the referenced photos. Perhaps someone knows the story.

Les
Author:  dinwitty [ Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 0-12-0 C
I have a model of the 0-10-2. originally of the Union RR, the engine is half painted DM&IR and Union. It wasn't used so much for switching than low speed transfer service.
Author:  cjvrr [ Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 0-12-0 C
What I find quite amazing is that this particular locomotive has been preserved for over 100 years!

wilkinsd wrote:
The Reuben Wells is not really a "sister locomotive." It is an 0-10-0T and was built in the company shops of The Jeffersonville, Madison & Indianapolis Railroad for the famous "Madison Hill" a 5.89% grade down into Madison, Indiana. The locomotive was built in 1868 and had a rather long service life.

Even in later steam days, the PRR used special 2-8-0T locomotives that always operated on the downhill side of the train, no matter if it was going up the hill or down it.
Author:  David H. Hamley [ Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 0-12-0 C
I first became aware of URR 304/DMIR 604 during a visit to the B&LE shops in 1964. At that time 2-8-0 154 and 2-10-4 643 were stored in the adjacent roundhouse along with several B&LE business cars. Walked around 643 and here's this beast of an engine I didn't even know existed. I'm quite certain I verified the loco's BLW c/n as belonging to URR 304 and not 303.

One question comes to mind: In a number of places atop the loco's frame and on the pilot deck are stacked many thousand pounds worth of thick steel plates. Was this something URR did to compensate for the removal of the tender boosters, or was this a DMIR modification, perhaps for the same reason--to get more tractive effort? I believe it was URR that removed the boosters, but a verification would be welcome.

BTW these were not the only North American 0-10-2s. CNW had some that they converted from 2-10-2s. The URR's were the only ones built new however.
Author:  The Fireman [ Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 0-12-0 C
David H. Hamley wrote:

One question comes to mind: In a number of places atop the loco's frame and on the pilot deck are stacked many thousand pounds worth of thick steel plates. Was this something URR did to compensate for the removal of the tender boosters, or was this a DMIR modification, perhaps for the same reason--to get more tractive effort? I believe it was URR that removed the boosters, but a verification would be welcome.


The steel plates were a DM&IR addition, and was primarily to gain more tractive effort. On the DM&IR the "Unions" were used primarily to bring previously classified ore trains down to the Duluth Docks from Proctor, as well as in transfer service from Proctor down to Steelton and interchanges with other ore carriers in Superior. The Unions also seem to have been direct replacements for the Missabe's "Hill Mallets":

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/chesapeake/?page=dmir

Image
Author:  Les Beckman [ Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 0-12-0 C
David H. Hamley wrote:
I first became aware of URR 304/DMIR 604 during a visit to the B&LE shops in 1964. At that time 2-8-0 154 and 2-10-4 643 were stored in the adjacent roundhouse along with several B&LE business cars. Walked around 643 and here's this beast of an engine I didn't even know existed. I'm quite certain I verified the loco's BLW c/n as belonging to URR 304 and not 303.



David -

Thanks for your comments. The report that the engine returned by the Missabe to the Greenville roundhouse for preservation was 603/303 is in the book published by Frank A. King "Locomotives of the Duluth Missabe & Iron Range". Mr. King worked for the DM&IR and also photographed their locomotives. Did he get it wrong? Possibly, although he was pretty meticulous of his facts. Take a look at the very first photograph in the referenced rrpicturearchives sequence of photos; the one that is in black and white and was taken in May of 1960 when the 604 was still up on the Iron Range. Note that running board has a little "jog" in it right about where the firebox starts. The engine now on display there in Greenville, doesn't have that jog. Why would they have removed it? Of course, I don't have an old photo of 603 (URR 303) to see if its running board was straight in that area. Anyone got a photo of that locomotive? Also, you say that you verified that the BLW c/n belonged to the 304 and not the 303, but the builders plates are missing on the engine displayed there in Greenville. They were on the locomotive when in service on the DM&IR, but removed. Who removed them? They don't appear to be on the locomotive when it was still in the B&LE roundhouse in Greenville before being put on display. Could the builders plates you saw been from another 0-10-2? Maybe the 604/304? And that corresponding number then painted on the engine? I'm not yet convinced as to what engine is actually on display. But I am willing to listen to some facts. To those who think I'm just nitpicking, I apologize for taking up the space.

Les
Author:  Les Beckman [ Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 0-12-0 C
Jeff Lisowski wrote:
Les Beckman wrote:
They were on the locomotive when in service on the DM&IR, but removed. Who removed them? They don't appear to be on the locomotive when it was still in the B&LE roundhouse in Greenville before being put on display. Could the builders plates you saw been from another 0-10-2? Maybe the 604/304? And that corresponding number then painted on the engine? I'm not yet convinced as to what engine is actually on display. But I am willing to listen to some facts. To those who think I'm just nitpicking, I apologize for taking up the space.

Les


I don't think the plates are on in this 1960 image;
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3107042

1980 in roundhouse, no plates
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... x?id=71962


Jeff - The plates are there in this photo. Check under the "chin" of the smokebox
sitting there on the pilot deck.



Here is the builder's plate
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3072518


Jeff - I'm not sure what this is, but it's not the Baldwin builders plate. Note there
is no serial number! My guess is that this was custom made to put on the engine
probably by the group there in Greenville.


But note where the plate is displayed
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3072517


Jeff - Right! The engines when in service on the DM&IR had no number plate in
the center of the smokebox door. Not sure if the Union Railroad had a builders
plate located there when they were in service on the URR.

Les


And I concur about what you said, most likely is a different engine.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 0-12-0 C
Jeff Lisowski wrote:
I don't think the plates are on in this 1960 image;
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3107042

I see a spot of rust/different colored paint where the builder's plate should have been, on the side of the smokebox.

Quote:
Here is the builder's plate
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3072518

That is most decidedly NOT a "builder's plate," which is supposed to show the Baldwin (in this case) construction/serial number. That is what some call an "inventory plate," made by the railroad to affix its own inventory or other tracking number to the loco.
Author:  hi-plains [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DMIR 304
Jeff Lisowski wrote:
While not quite in the same design, this must have been something else to see as well.

Never knew this engine was around until about 2 weeks ago in Pennsylvania.

And in surprisingly good shape cosmetically.

DM&IR 0-10-2
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopi ... x?id=31425


Interesting truck design under the tender. Were the locomotives booster-equipped?
Author:  Les Beckman [ Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DMIR 304
hi-plains wrote:
Jeff Lisowski wrote:


DM&IR 0-10-2
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/Locopi ... x?id=31425


Interesting truck design under the tender. Were the locomotives booster-equipped?


The locomotives were delivered with tender boosters but the DM&IR removed them due to maintenance issues.

Les
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