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| First Generation electrical diagrams - Value? https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37318 |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | First Generation electrical diagrams - Value? |
Is there value in the complete wiring blueprints for EMD locomotives of the following models: BL2, GP7-GP9, E7a, NW2, and F3a? Other than collectors items, are these the types of materials where copies would be of value for restorations? Are copies of general interest to individuals, say on CD's or DVD's? |
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| Author: | PCook [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Generation electrical diagrams - Value? |
They are of value as information sources to anyone maintaining or restoring one of the mentioned locomotives. However all of them were published in their original release version in the back of the respective locomotive operators manuals back in the 1940s and early 1950s, or in supplements, like the FL9 supplement to the F9 manual, so they are not really "rare". Unfortunately the people who had those manuals sometimes removed the physical schematic wiring diagram for easier reference and never put them back in the manuals, I have seen many otherwise complete manuals missing the wiring diagrams. But the information in the manuals tended to be static for long periods of time, only being reissued occasionally, while modifications and upgrades to the locomotives were being released on a much more frequent basis. Consequently the diagrams in many original manuals are out of date and do not reflect modifications, particularly to wheelslip and transition circuits, that were subsequently released in ModRecs (Special Maintenance Instructions). You really need a pretty complete file of Maintenance Instructions along with the wiring diagrams to be able to identify all the changes that applied to the various locomotive models, because the publications indexes don't identify the applicability of the MI's very well. Some railroads released updated physical wiring schematic booklets for their entire Diesel-electric locomotive fleets, these included all the changes made to the date of issue. ATSF and IC did some really nice references, as well as other railroads. Those booklets can be very useful in sorting out changes made during and after production. When physical schematic wiring diagrams and the accompanying training manual "Tracing Physical Schematic Wiring Diagrams" are offered on eBay, they usually do not receive many bids, and generally end up being sold to people who have a special interest in a particular type of locomotive. "Tracing Physical Schematic Wiring Diagrams" was printed in October 1952, October 1963, August 1966, March 1971, May 1974, and April 1979, as well as other dates. Each printing reflects the symbols in use in production locomotives in its respective time period. The content of the October 1952 book is therefore quite different from the April 1979 book, the later book reflecting the introduction of newer electrical and electronic devices and the diagram symbols identifying those components. This entire topic area has been mentioned a number of times as being a suitable subject for discussion at an ATRRM conference. PC |
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| Author: | filmteknik [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:22 am ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: First Generation electrical diagrams - Value? | |||
An IC booklet I picked up at a show a while back and a sample page. Note the applicability to just two units. Some pages just apply to a single unit and even here there are minor differences between the two units. (These were E8A's.) Steve
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| Author: | PCook [ Sat Nov 15, 2014 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: First Generation electrical diagrams - Value? |
That Illinois Central diagram is a really good example of what happens in the aftermarket, showing the differences in installed voltage regulators between unit 4018 and 4019. A salesman walks into the Mechanical Department office with a new electronic device, and the CMO says "Okay, we'll buy one and test it on a locomotive". So they get the equipment for one locomotive, install it, and forget about it. The locomotive is then different from everything else in the fleet. Maybe they don't follow up and install it on the other units, or the manufacturer changes the design and that particular device is dropped from production, or some other vendor comes in with a comparable device and the railroad likes that product better and buys it for the rest of the fleet. So you end up with these strange individual wiring differences as a result of partially implemented modification projects. Unless you update all the wiring diagrams like the Illinois Central has done, this is left to confuse everyone who subsequently encounters these modified locomotives. Several members of this board have worked together on a number of troubleshooting exercises involving the former Bangor & Aroostook F3's, which have some features found on F9 locomotives as the result of application of an obscure series of EMD ModRec's, but those devices were not identified with the same component names used on the F9 wiring diagrams. This causes confusion many years later when you are trying to troubleshoot locomotive problems. The locomotive no longer matches the original diagram, what is installed looks like a later production locomotive's equipment, but the component names are different from what is shown on the later locomotive's wiring diagram. So if the schematic was never updated you end up needing the original documentation for the modification. I had a call recently from a friend who was trying to identify a particular device on a locomotive wiring diagram. We found that device was not listed in any of the various issues of the "Tracing Physical Schematic Wiring Diagrams" reference book nor in the key panel for the wiring diagram. However, the device was shown and explained in a very obscure EMD ModRec MI from the 1950's, one that is not found in most Maintenance Instruction sets. So EMD didn't always follow up and include all of their own new technology and changes in their reference materials. Another example: The EMD Training Center developed a series of handouts for their locomotive electrical classes that dealt with specific aspects of locomotive wiring and electrical troubleshooting. Most of this information never made it into the standard references published by the other departments. Originals are hard to find now unless a student saved their entire training class package with the handouts. It would probably help the museum and preservation industry if this kind of technical information were maintained in a PDF library by a national organization where it could be made available on request. The information is more valuable than the original paper documents, so PDF format would serve the need adequately. PC |
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