There is another great interview with Doyle McCormack over at Friends of the Flange....


http://www.friendsoftheflange.com

In my opinion, the most significant lines from the interview:



This ties in with some comments by Steve Lee in an earlier interview:



viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37141&p=222008

I find this troubling. Those in this field know that just getting a locomotive through a 1472 is tough enough without having to worry about not having a place to run it, without having to worry that someone is just going to get nervous about a steam train.

As both of these gentlemen have noted, steam can be a great marketing tool. It can project a positive image that may well be more interesting, more eye-catching, and thus more effective than any bunch of TV ads--yet some people in the rail industry have an attitude that would just as soon bury all its heritage and never let it see the light of day.

I have news for them. If you don't celebrate your positive accomplishments, both present and past, then you are not going to write your own history. Someone else will, and very likely that will be stories of tank car explosions, derailments, and blocked grade crossings. Those stories will have no positive sides, and they will make life more difficult than it already is.

The industry has some very dedicated people in it and "outside" it, too. Some are as professional as anybody in any field--see the Fort Wayne Historical Society, the Strasburg Rail Road, and the WW&F for just three examples--and think of the many more we have read about and celebrated here and elsewhere.

Can this industry afford to write off its enthusiasts as "people who play with trains?"

[quote="J Can this industry afford to write off its enthusiasts as "people who play with trains?"[/quote]

So long as we appear to them as such, they have no reason to consider us as anything else.

dave

A few years ago I witnessed an event where the speakers series at a public library in a rather small town generated a turnout for a railroad history lecture that was substantially larger than the audience that a railroad historical society with 1200+ members was able to produce for the same program. The library audience included quite a few professional railroaders, a population seldom seen at the railroad historical group's events. The difference between the turnout for the two groups was largely the result of the library staff, through their experience with an ongoing lecture series, making far better use of the publicity channels available to them, many of which carried notice of the event for free.

If you don't let anybody "outside the fence" know about your organizations or your events, you are going to be looking at a declining turnout until the last member left has to shut off the lights. There are people out there who are potentially interested in railroad history and preservation, but if you don't make any effort to reach out to them they may not find out that your organizations exist.

PC

And this is the root of the trouble. "Playing with trains" happens to include a long series of excursions by Union Pacific, some with long commercial connections, it includes the American Freedom Train and later excursions to New Orleans and other places with the 4449, it includes some of the finest steam shops anywhere, it includes at least one steam shop that has built standard gauge replicas of 19th century locomotives, it includes firms like Durango & Silverton, Cumbres & Toltec, and the White Pass making money on passengers with steam engines, and doing it with safety on some of the toughest and potentially most dangerous railroads to operate in the world. It includes people bringing locomotives back to life after a sleep of the better part of a century, and rebuilding a railroad besides (WW&F). It includes the trolley crowd painstakingly bringing their cars back to life, some literally from being chicken coops.

And all this and more is dismissed as "playing with trains?" Isn't that the sort of talk we should expect from NIMBYs and the trail crowd?

This business has had some problematic people in the past, including some who can be described as (a) at least eccentric, and in some cases mentally unbalanced, and (b) some others, some of whom are in category (a), who have turned out to be frauds. I've had the misfortune to meet some of them. But, aren't we all people? It's not as if the world of "real" railroading hasn't had its share of crooks, criminals, and incompetents over the years, not to mention alcoholics and addicts, both in history and in current times.

There was a time when the managers of some tourist roads could be said to be "playing with trains" for fun and profit, but I have seen some changes in the field, and it looks like a lot of those days are gone, and ironically we can thank the shake-up that followed the Gettysburg incident for that. The "real" railroad business has had a couple of shake-ups, too, following incidents that had some serious fatalities.

I don't think the problem is us anymore, at least not to the extent it might have been--at least, that's what I see.

So why are we still saddled with that misperception, and by people who should know better?

Maybe the misconception is that every proposed (or not proposed by loudly discussed) idea that goes around is equally valuable and legitimate.

I draw a distinction between realistic and complete ideas responsibly developed and presented by people with invested resources and credibility and the emotional entreaties by foamers with nothing but grandiose delusions to bring to the table.

Until we remove the foamers from the equasion, they will sill tarnish better proposals by their having instilled a sense of distrust in the minds of the decision makers in the railroad business who have had to deal with them before. It's hard enough to build a workable partnership from a clean slate, much less having to tear down walls other have built in your way first.......this makes us all weaker in the larger picture.

dave

To be fair, this problem is hardly confined to rail preservation. It's incredibly prevalent in other forms of historical preservation, and horribly common (if not mandatory by now) throughout politics as well. Look at the dichotomy between reasoned proposals to upgrade Amtrak intercity corridors to higher-speed operations (or just replace the infrastructure before it fails!) versus activist demands for a nationwide high-speed-rail/maglev network.

People used to have all sorts of sensational fantasies of starting tourist lines on every somewhat scenic line decades ago as well. The major difference is that the internet and online forums let the dreamers put a well-reasoned approach (Verde Canyon RR, Grand Canyon, Sierra, etc.), a less advisable one (your typical random locomotive and passenger car on any branch line), and the "Walter Mitty-like" delusions of grandeur (reopening Tennessee Pass with a C&O 614/Centennial-pulled land cruise train) all on the same par.

In a sense, the "nattering nabobs of negativity" that keep kicking the proverbial sand in the faces of the delusional dreamers have a duty, and that is to keep injecting reality into the environment. That reality keeps us looking sensible, as opposed to more "guys who want to play with trains" stereotypes polluting our field.

Hi, I'm the one that's been writing these. Thanks for the kind words & further insights. Just joined RYPN but have lurked a long time.

Personally I agree with both of the gentlemen said, & the paragraphs you all highlighted as "most important." We (i.e., the industry, and the Class I managers) can't think of steam as a nostalgic thing any more. It is a marketing tool, and smaller organizations have to present it as a part of some larger event.

I have more thoughts along these lines, may be worth their own article at some point.

Thanks!

To me, the real trick to this is to use it as an internal measure of the host roads operations management capability. It is one thing, to decide when a unit train of coal or grain will drag out of the yards. It is quite another to weave an excursion into the weekend schedule and not totally disrupt the freight. The manager that can make that run smoothly, is the manager that the company wants to promote.

Or, the manager who takes the risk of trying is the manager who goes away.

Want to risk your career?

dave

The problem with this assessment is that there's a vast difference between trying to "slot" a passenger train over,m say, Raton Pass, the Santa Fe "Peavine" to Phoenix (4-6 trains a day, essentially a 300-mile branch line), or another main line that only sees 2-4 trains a day if that, versus trying to fit in a train on Cajon Pass, Horse Shoe Curve, or a single-track main where keeping the trains on schedule becomes a choreography of ballet between trains and sidings.

We can tout the (intangible) value of positive PR all we want, but what really matters is still the (very tangible) value of those freight trains in return to the bottom line.

But Dave, people have to DREAM! All great ideas start out as dreams! Why do you put down people who dream? How dare you!

[/sarcasm]

Seriously, the best observation on RYPN this year, or at least a front runner.

I'll second that motion.

At the risk of softening my reputation....there's a place for dreaming, but when you are talking to businessmen about things that impact their business, you need to be businesslike in the process if you expect to be taken seriously. Vision is one thing, and not always done well.....but vision that is backed up with a well thought out and workable plan is what's worth pursuing. Save the presentation to the decision makers until you are through with the brainstorming and development - and hire expert help in crafting the presentation if you have to. I've saved myself a lot of heartache by getting smarter people involved in the process before I open my mouth with an amateur-hour pitch.

dave

In addition, the "heartache" you save is also one less reason for the business decision makers to intentionally avoid listening to what they will predict, with good reason, to be yet another fantastical, "pie in the sky" proposal that is ultimately a waste of their time.