Railway Preservation News
https://www.rypn.org/forums/

1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37364		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  LGK08441 [ Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
Hello,
 We have recently purchased a NP  passenger car built by Barney and Smith Car Company.  We have a bit of its history. It was  origionally number 805 and was delivered to St. Paul MN July 31st 1891. It was remodeled in 1905 to a grill car, and again turned back into a coach in 1911.  In 1925 it was again remodeled into a combo passenger car/baggage car. On June 30th 1925 it was renumbered to 471. It was taken out of service in 1936 and dis-manteled in 1940.  it sat on a ranch in Montana until the 80s when it was moved to Janesville MN by Ward Wendt. he was going to restore it, but it was not done. We purchased it at an farm auction.
This information was provided by Burlington Northern to Mr. Wendt in 1976 when he was considering purchasing the car.  
The car has a stencil above a door that states Yellowstone park line, but Burlington could not provide verification that the car had been used there.
We want to semi restore the car, and repair the deterioration, and am looking for any information, photos, history, interior and exterior colors, lines it ran or anything that may help us, even other cars made by this company in that era.   For its age, its in remarkably decent shape, as once it was moved to MN it was left to the elements.  I have done a lot of internet searches for it, but nothing turns up on either of the cars numbers, nor can I find much info on the manufacture.  
There is a intact water jacket, Wood shades, and the majority interior woodwork of the car can be salvaged.
I have been to the Minnesota Historical society that houses NP records. The only account I can find of this car is a 1921 Controllers record that lists it as a 2nd Class Coach. In fact, there is a gap in the records for 20 cars #800 thru #819. I have received information from Gary Tarbox from The Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association that states 20 cars were purchased during this time frame.
Again, any information or contacts you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Its a piece of history we would like to know more about.


    Attachments:
    File comment: Front Half of 1891 NP Coach
    IMG_1127.JPG
    IMG_1127.JPG [ 227.36 KiB | Viewed 11231 times ]
    Author:  Dave [ Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:39 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: 1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
    Beautiful start to a great project.

    I'm concerned about the missing trusses. Unless the car was rebuilt with a metal frame, it could be critical to its structural integrity. I have a structural drawing for a coach of similar size and construction from the Chicago an Alton RR in the 1888 Car Builders Dictionary I'd be happy to copy and send to you if you PM me with a mailing address.

    dave
    Author:  LGK08441 [ Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:09 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: 1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
    Sorry to be ignorant, but what are trusses? the coach is all wood underneath. We were going to put ibeams underneath for support so it can be mounted on the trucks. We also have the iron steps that went on each end. It will be displayed on a private farm as a conversation piece. We have a lot of experience restoring old houses and buildings, but this is our first rail car.
    Author:  HudsonL [ Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:30 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: 1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
    NPRHA Gene Hawk Collection

    http://www.gn-npjointarchive.org/_layou ... 0View.aspx

    Did not find that car, but there are photos of similar cars.

    -Hudson
    Author:  Randall Hicks [ Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:07 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: 1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
    Furthermore, from the picture you only have about half of the car. According to your history, the car was converted into a combine, and the baggage section is missing. Unless the other half is on hand, there's not much you can do. The truss rods are steel rods about 1 1/2" in diameter that would run from one bolster to the other, beneath the side walls, to help hold up the wooden structure. It's not surprising they're missing, since the other bolster is gone. But what's left of the car could still be an interesting static display.
    Author:  Al Stangenberger [ Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:35 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: 1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
    Some of the chapel cars from that era were built by Barney and Smith, so that may be a lead to some information.

    For example, http://www.chapelcars.com/
    Author:  Dave [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:35 am ]
    Post subject:  Re: 1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
    I assumed the baggage section would be reconstructed.......but perhaps that was not correct? OK, back to basics: you will need to determine whether you are happy with reconstructing the part of the car you have - which will not be on wheels - or reconstructing the missing part which if you do it correctly will be structurally able to be on wheels.

    If you go with just what you have, a foundation that will adequately support the bolsters and the side sills will do you nicely. The platform frame is joined to the end sill by mortise and tenon joints held in place with tension rods, and the steps hang on the sides of the platform. Of course, the only platform you will need if you go with just the part of the car you have will be at the back, not where the baggage compartment was cut off.

    The drawings I send you include parts lists for the framing components so it will make sense when you get it. If you have scarfed sills under old post and beam structures before you will be able to do something very similar to extend the side sills on which to replicate the missing baggage end.

    dave
    Author:  colfaxstation [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:15 am ]
    Post subject:  Re: 1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
    If you need underbody parts, our museum has recently salvaged a large quantity of Barney & Smith car parts. We are located in western WI.
    Herb Sakalaucks
    Colfax RR Museum
    715-225-0688
    Author:  LGK08441 [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:03 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: 1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
    We do have the baggage section, we sawed the car in half to get it home, unconventional, but it worked. We pulled the baggage section home with a pick up and we pulled the main section home with a friends flatbed semi. Heck, the farmers around here have Combine heads bigger than this car!
    Thanks for all the info and leads, im sure ill be back asking many questions, I have attached a photo of the baggage section.

    Attachments:
    IMG_1128.JPG
    IMG_1128.JPG [ 201.8 KiB | Viewed 10675 times ]
    Author:  LGK08441 [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:06 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: 1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
    Am I correct in assuming the holes in both ends of the door frame was for a cable that kept the lamps from swinging? I have seen a rope or cable in some Pullman photos.
    Author:  Brian Norden [ Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:51 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: 1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
    The holes above the doors were used for a signal cord. Each car had a cord that where tied or otherwise connected together. Then a cord was run from the first passenger car to a gong in the locomotive cab. The conductor could then ring the gong and by the sequence of rings tell the engineer to go or stop and other actions.

    Later on, passenger trains got longer and the bell cord was replaced by an air signal that sounded a whistle in the cab by using a valve located in the passenger cars.
    Author:  car57 [ Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:13 am ]
    Post subject:  Re: 1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
    Firstly very well done for saving this even if it is two halves....
    The stenciling above the door will tell you everything you need to know..as a starter. So Yellowstone Park lines it certainly was, is their a car number under that too or above the door on the outside ? Im afraid Burlington will be of no use whatever but i have historian contacts who may be able to help solve the history.

    Please PM me and we can converse and may unravel this one

    Mike Pannell
    Cheyenne
    Author:  LGK08441 [ Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:42 am ]
    Post subject:  Re: 1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
    Here is a pic of the number on the coach section:

    Attachments:
    IMG_1117.JPG
    IMG_1117.JPG [ 212.8 KiB | Viewed 10205 times ]
    Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:20 am ]
    Post subject:  Re: 1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
    As simply an aside, I believe it's safe to say that the "Yellowstone Park Line" below the NP yin-yang logo is simply an advertising slogan of the particular era, and not indicative of this specific car bring assigned to any specific Yellowstone Park service.
    Author:  rock island lines [ Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:10 pm ]
    Post subject:  Re: 1891 Barney and Smith Wood Coach
    LGK08441 wrote:
    Here is a pic of the number on the coach section:

    Restored cars are nice to look at, and there are many sparkling clean restorations at rail museums. But a car in good original condition is so much more appealing than any restoration. That old "Northern Pacific" lettering and varnish has the power to transport you back in time like no restored car ever could. What a beautiful thing. You have a treasure there.
    Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
    Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
    http://www.phpbb.com/