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2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37517		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  cnj1524 [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
I know about LIRR 39,Havent heard to much about money raised so far but I
saw this about #35 http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nass ... -1.9770858
Author:  SteamEnthusiast4000 [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
I was a little surprised about this as well. I had also heard about the plan for LIRR #39 to be restored, and operated, by the Strasburg Railroad for a good length of time. However, I had not heard anything regarding plans for #35.

That being said, I am excited for the prospect of another steam locomotive possibly returning to operation again. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, unless someone has some more details that they can reveal.
Author:  softwerkslex [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
These engines can be found in earlier years in this forum:

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34715&p=192715&hilit=oyster+bay#p192715
Author:  Overmod [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
For me, the Newsday story is behind a paywall. Can someone summarize the points of interest here?
Author:  philip.marshall [ Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
Overmod wrote:
For me, the Newsday story is behind a paywall. Can someone summarize the points of interest here?


In a few words, the Oyster Bay RR Museum has signed a contract with Steam Operations Corporation in Alabama to restore ex-LIRR G5s 35 to operational condition. The engine's drivers and pilot truck are already on their way to AL by truck, with the frame and boiler to follow later. The 35's tender has been determined to be beyond repair, so a new tender will be fabricated. When the restoration is complete the 35 will return to Oyster Bay to become an operational display on the museum grounds; mainline excursions on the LIRR are highly unlikely.

This follows the 2012 announcement that the Railroad Museum of Long Island had signed a contract with Strasburg RR to restore LIRR G5s 39 to operation and have the Strasburg retain the engine for service on their line for a term of 48 years, which means there may soon be not one but *two* operational LIRR G5s 4-6-0s.

[My comments: The news of the tender replacement saddens me, as I understand the 35's tender is especially significant as it originally belonged to LIRR G5s 21 and was once painted in special livery for "The Cannonball", but I'm sure the Oyster Bay folks appreciate this as well and will keep the original tender on display. Also, how much track does the Oyster Bay RR Museum have for 35 to run on? My understanding is that they occupy a small corner of the LIRR Oyster Bay yard, with further expansion constrained by adjacent streets and the waterfront. Will the 35 be limited to just moving back and forth on a few hundred feet of track plus an occasional ride on the turntable? It's better than being stuffed and mounted I suppose, but still...]

-Philip Marshall
Author:  bigjim4life [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
philip.marshall wrote:
Overmod wrote:
For me, the Newsday story is behind a paywall. Can someone summarize the points of interest here?

Also, how much track does the Oyster Bay RR Museum have for 35 to run on? My understanding is that they occupy a small corner of the LIRR Oyster Bay yard, with further expansion constrained by adjacent streets and the waterfront. Will the 35 be limited to just moving back and forth on a few hundred feet of track plus an occasional ride on the turntable? It's better than being stuffed and mounted I suppose, but still...]

-Philip Marshall


I had wondered that myself, where they would run the engine - and asked on the Oyster Bay RR Museum's Facebook page. Here's what I heard back:

"Initial intention is to have it as an active educational display in our yard. However it will be capable of mainline operation. At that point, any other options can be considered, but not before."

Also, their business plan (found on their website) mentions the following: "Ideally,
Locomotive #35 could also be demonstrated on the LIRR for special occasions."
Author:  JimBoylan [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
Since the L.I.R.R. is publicly owned, it somewhat of a political animal.
Now, do enough of the members and supporters of the locomotive's
organization turn out to vote on every election day?

This is an official question from an Inspector of Elections.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
Owing to the design and nature of the G5's, I think once they are returned to steaming capability, venues for operation will become apparent. Just because the LIRR is now a publicly own entity, that doesn't mean doors are going to be slammed on some operations.

At the very least, we are restoring two PRR designed steam locomotives. That is critical.
Author:  omar [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
Were any Ping-Pong cars saved? You can't ride behind a steam locomotive in a sealed MU car can you?
Author:  philip.marshall [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
omar wrote:
Were any Ping-Pong cars saved? You can't ride behind a steam locomotive in a sealed MU car can you?


Yes, the Oyster Bay RR Museum has at least one Ping-Pong (aka P-54). :)

http://www.obrm.org/history/equipment-roster.php
Author:  philip.marshall [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
The LIRR is a very political animal, and that's a big part of the problem here. With the exception of a few showpieces like Grand Central Terminal, the MTA seems to have very little interest in historic preservation, and frame all of their operations in terms of a narrowly utilitarian urban mass-transit paradigm. (It pains me to think of how much of the historical fabric of the old LIRR has been removed or demolished in the last few decades.) After all, the reason the Railroad Museum of Long Island finally opted to lease 39 to Strasburg was that after many years of inquiries they came to the reluctant conclusion they would never be allowed to operate steam on the LIRR, even on the little-used rural portion of the old main line between Riverhead and Greenport. The MTA has no use for whimsical indulgences like steam excursions.

That said, I think the rapid success the Oyster Bay RR Museum has enjoyed in the last few years has been due in no small part to their ability to exploit the right constituencies, both political and financial. Not only is Oyster Bay a fairly wealthy community, but it's one with a strong sense of local history, particularly in terms of its associations with Teddy Roosevelt-- and TR of course traveled to and from his summer White House in Oyster Bay by train! The museum's other big restoration project, that of the historic Oyster Bay depot, has largely been supported on the basis of this association with TR. As their website says, "When restored, the very station that TR used extensively when he traveled to and from his beloved Oyster Bay will become the permanent home of the Museum." I hope they can continue to exploit this TR connection when it comes to 35 -- maybe with a TR impersonator at the throttle! (Never mind that the G5s came on the scene almost a decade after TR's death. That's merely a detail.)

http://www.obrm.org/_pdfs/obrm-campaign-2014.pdf

-Philip Marshall
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
OBRM has had a savvy fund-raiser bring them forward with the #35. They've been fortunate in that respect. The other thing is, Long Island has a solid industrial base and lots of people hoping to point their communities in a preservationist direction.
I wouldn't rule out eventual steam fan trips behind a resident locomotive. Given the right individuals advancing the cause, it would bear lots of political fruit and investment.
Author:  diningcartim [ Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
I have been inside the current Hillside Maintenance Facility as a vendor several times in recent years. There is quite a treasure trove of historic photos and other memorabilia of the LIRR that grace the walls and display cases in the hallways and offices. I am always amazed (amused too) of how often I see the keystone LIRR herald within those walls. At the same time the people I deal with have an interest in LIRR history but have little actual knowledge of it.
Author:  hamster [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 LIRR 4-6-0's returning?
philip.marshall wrote:
Overmod wrote:
For me, the Newsday story is behind a paywall. Can someone summarize the points of interest here?


In a few words, the Oyster Bay RR Museum has signed a contract with Steam Operations Corporation in Alabama to restore ex-LIRR G5s 35 to operational condition. The engine's drivers and pilot truck are already on their way to AL by truck, with the frame and boiler to follow later. The 35's tender has been determined to be beyond repair, so a new tender will be fabricated. When the restoration is complete the 35 will return to Oyster Bay to become an operational display on the museum grounds; mainline excursions on the LIRR are highly unlikely.

This follows the 2012 announcement that the Railroad Museum of Long Island had signed a contract with Strasburg RR to restore LIRR G5s 39 to operation and have the Strasburg retain the engine for service on their line for a term of 48 years, which means there may soon be not one but *two* operational LIRR G5s 4-6-0s.

[My comments: The news of the tender replacement saddens me, as I understand the 35's tender is especially significant as it originally belonged to LIRR G5s 21 and was once painted in special livery for "The Cannonball", but I'm sure the Oyster Bay folks appreciate this as well and will keep the original tender on display. Also, how much track does the Oyster Bay RR Museum have for 35 to run on? My understanding is that they occupy a small corner of the LIRR Oyster Bay yard, with further expansion constrained by adjacent streets and the waterfront. Will the 35 be limited to just moving back and forth on a few hundred feet of track plus an occasional ride on the turntable? It's better than being stuffed and mounted I suppose, but still...]

-Philip Marshall


A restoration by Steam Operations is a pretty pricy venture for a museum with minimum space to run. And the million dollar (or more) restoration to operation runs out in 15 years whether the locomotive operates or not. Either someone knows something about the local LIRR attitudes or is blowing smoke. The museum will need to find a place to operate if they want to learn how to run the locomotive competently enough to even hope to satisfy any Class 1 or Class 2 RR. Seems like a better solution would be a cosmetic restoration if there is nowhere to actually use the locomotive.
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