| Railway Preservation News https://www.rypn.org/forums/ |
|
| Brick Facade Structure https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37589 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | 10stewi [ Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Brick Facade Structure |
Recently (within the last two years) someone posted about how their organization had recently undergone the task of covering their newly constructed metal shop building with brick to make it look more historic. I could not find the thread even using the search option. Does anyone know what thread it was? I believe the group was located in Pennsylvania, two photos were posted that showed a 3/4 view of the building with a before and after taken in what seemed like winter based off of the trees. I am interested in contacting the group to see how they built their structure, as we might be doing something very similar over here in Denmark soon. |
|
| Author: | Evan [ Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: recent workshop construction thread |
Perhaps you are thinking of the Trolley Museum of New York's building facade project? Go to this link and scroll to the bottom: http://www.tmny.org/tmnynews.html. It wasn't a "newly constructed metal" building though; it was a 30-year old grey masonry building that the facade was applied to. |
|
| Author: | 10stewi [ Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: recent workshop construction thread |
Thank you Evan! That was exactly what I was thinking of. |
|
| Author: | robertmacdowell [ Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: recent workshop construction thread |
I would be skittish about a masonry facade on a steel building because steel buildings move and flex, not only because of thermal expansion differences, but also they are built barely stronger than needed for max wind/snow load, and will do a fair amount of flexing before that point. |
|
| Author: | wesp [ Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: recent workshop construction thread |
Masonry over steel is ok IF the steel building is designed to take the load. This is how we installed the facade for Street Car Hall at the National Capital Trolley Museum (building in background with arched brick). Eight years later the walls are standing without any issues. Wesley 
|
|
| Author: | 10stewi [ Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: recent workshop construction thread |
Without creating an argument, I would agree that a steel structure can support a brick facade/veneer based off of the information supplied on this page; http://www.masonrysystems.org/wall-syst ... teel-stud/ Granted this is an example where the steel structure does not support the load of a steel wall and then a facade as I previously described. Perhaps I should change the title of the thread now. Please, if you or your museum has had any experience related to creating a brick facade structure, please post your experience! I would be very interested in projects that had to do with the construction of a building designated specifically for workshop purposes! Thanks everyone! |
|
| Author: | Al Stangenberger [ Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: recent workshop construction thread |
10stewi wrote: Without creating an argument, I would agree that a steel structure can support a brick facade/veneer based off of the information supplied on this page; http://www.masonrysystems.org/wall-syst ... teel-stud/ As a resident of earthquake country (California), I appreciate that web site's caution that seismic considerations are important in addition to the static loading considerations of just holding the facade/veneer up. Apparently some people argue that the absence of significant earthquakes over the past 200 years (for example, the New Madrid earthquake occurred in 1811) means that this problem can now be ignored in many areas. In the case of the New Madrid zone, the United States Geological Survey (USGS) disagrees: Quote: Based on this history of past earthquakes, the USGS estimates the chance of having an earthquake similar to one of the 1811–12 sequence in the next 50 years is about 7 to 10 percent, and the chance of having a magnitude 6 or larger earthquake in 50 years is 25 to 40 percent.
|
|
| Author: | wesp [ Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brick Facade Structure |
10stewi, I cannot put my hands on the records, but I recall we spent quite a bit of time to engineer the brick facade. Wesley |
|
| Author: | Chris Chestnut [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brick Facade Structure |
The question for me is what are you trying to achieve? Many years ago when I was involved in the construction of a very large visitor center we spent a great deal of time searching for bricks. We finally found a vendor that made molded bricks rather than extruded bricks. The building looked great. I actually had the opportunity to over hear visitors questioning how we were able to move such a large structure to our museum. If I were doing it today I would ask myself is the effort worth it. It wasn't an actual historic structure. Doing all that effort did not result in an increase in visitors coming to se the building. If I were doing it today I would probably consider a stucco application that simulated bricks. Its lighter, can be applied to most buildings, takes a lot less time, and is cheaper which saves money that can be applied to actual preservation. |
|
| Author: | Evan [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brick Facade Structure |
Back to the TMNY facade, notice its in two halves, lower half is a brick veneer, upper half is fiber cement. The brick veneer doesn't bear weight on the building. It has its own footing and a brace behind it that supports the weight with flexible pins holding it to the masonry for stability. 
|
|
| Author: | Dennis Storzek [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brick Facade Structure |
The original post is rather ambiguous because it makes it sound like you want to add a brick facing to an existing structure. The biggest problem with this is the foundation won't be designed to carry the brick, and trenching next to an existing wall to add a foundation for the brick is not going to be cheap. On new construction, however, it's becoming rather common to build "brick" buildings that are only a veneer a single wythe thick applied to a steel framed building of the "Butler building" model. The foundation is designed to carry not only the loads imposed by the steel structure, but to also provide a ledge for the brick. The steel building is framed like any other steel framed industrial building, and caries all the snow and wind loads. It is sheathed with steel siding on the outside, with galvanized sheet steel "ties" fastened with the same screws that hold the sheathing to the putlins. These ties are then incorporated into the mortar joints of the brick, tying the veneer to the structural steel. As can be seen in the photo of the building a National Capital, the only noticeable difference is without the mass of a solid brick wall for support, the top of the parapet wall has to be sealed with steel trim rather than the traditional stone coping. About a dozen commercial/industrial buildings were built like this in my area before the economy crashed and new construction essentially stopped. Now about ten years old, they seem to be holding up well enough. |
|
| Author: | wrg113 [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brick Facade Structure |
I can't comment on its installation over a metal substructure but brick and stone veneer over sheathing has been a boon for the mold remediation industry. Takes about four to seven years to fully incubate. "Honey, why are there mushrooms growing behind the television in the family room?" |
|
| Author: | softwerkslex [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brick Facade Structure |
I can confirm that 10Stewi is referring to construction of a modern steel building with a cosmetic brick facade, ala Disneyland or your favorite mall. But I think there is more than one choice of material for the facade? I think not only masonry, but fiberglass, foam, and other materials of synthetic or modern design. Anyway, the point being a discussion of recent buildings with modern construction and cosmetic back dated exteriors. |
|
| Author: | wrg113 [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:26 pm ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Brick Facade Structure | |||
I submit these images in support of my earlier post....
|
||||
| Author: | Dave [ Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brick Facade Structure |
I live in one of a few thousand brick veneer buildings built during an Eisenhower era boom in my part of a city in the Red Clay south, where red brick is pretty much the expectation, as is dampness. Can't speak for those built in very recent years, but the ones built through the 1960s seem to be holding up very nicely indeed. If you build with no vapor barriers under a slab, have bad drainage or leaks, or put the vapor barriers on the wrong side or fail to allow for vapor to disperse from between the brick and sheathing, you reap the rewards of your oversight. Work with reputable local contractors who know what works in the long term in your area. dave |
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|