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Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
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Author:  Rick Rowlands [ Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
The Mahoning Valley Railroad Heritage Association in Youngstown, OH is planning to scrap a former Pere Marquette wooden boxcar, number 86690 (I think) if a savior is not found. I think they would give it away, or at the very least could save parts off of it if anyone is interested in anything from the car. I don't know much of the history on the car other than it was last used as a tool car on the Youngstown & Southern Railroad.

If interested just send me a PM.

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Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
86690 would be a valid number for a car that matches the appearance of the one in the photo. According to Pere Marquette Revenue Freight Cars by Million and Paton, this is one of a group of 1500 automobile cars built by the Pressed Steel Car Co. in 1923. The original door opening was ten feet, covered by a six foot main and four foot auxiliary doors. The cars were converted to standard box cars with six foot door openings during 1937 - 1943. The car in the photo appears to have its original Hutchins roof and ends from the same vendor, and one original steel door. The end door is obviously a modification for work service.

These cars were originally equipped with Klasing lever hand brakes... I wonder if it is still on the other end?

This car would make a nice addition to someone's period photo freight... a very typical car from a rather unusual road.
Author:  tomgears [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
Are any other Pere Marquette boxcars from this series preserved. This is a super rare representative of a 1920s boxcar. Why are they in a hurry to be rid of this car that they have obviously had for some time?
Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
Tom -

If you were going to restore this car, you would need to probably reside most, or all, of the whole car (I'm assuming that the other side is just as bad as this side) but that can be done. Is the missing side door laying around somewhere, otherwise new door needed. The Hutchins ends are probably rare; do any other examples of those ends exist? The parts cut out could probably be replicated with new steel. Again, can be done. Does the other end also have a company service door cut into it? We have a NKP camp car at HVRM where the Nickel Plate only cut a door in one end. Fishbelly frame is neat. Hope someone takes the car. I agree that a Pere Marquette box car would look good in a photo freight.

Les
Author:  big-bad-2666 [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
It looks to me that the "missing" side door, which Rick informed me via PM is with the car, is laying on the ground next to the door under a layer of snow.
Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
Aaron -

Thanks. Laying there right in front of me in the photo, and I missed it! So, one less problem for some museum that would like to restore the car.

Les
Author:  10stewi [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
I am fairly positive that the B&O museum's Pere Marquette box car is also from this same class. It features these Hutchins ends and is also of wood construction, but does not have a door in the end of the car body. It also is not in the greatest condition at the time being.... I would love to get dimension of the Hutchins end panels some day!
Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
On my visit to the B&O Museum a few years ago, I recall seeing a PM single sheathed (outside braced) boxcar, but don't recall seeing a double sheathed boxcar like this one. Perhaps I missed it. Also don't recall what type ends that car had.

Les
Author:  CO 2666 [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
Here is a picture of Pere Marquette #88958 in Baltimore. It looks like the two cars, do have matching ends.

Hope this helps,
-Andrew

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Author:  Rick Rowlands [ Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
The other side is in far worse shape, but so far the interior of the car appears in fairly good shape as is the floor. The roof does not leak. The far end does not have a man door cut into it.

The MVRHA has been storing railcars in an industrial park since 1988. They now own their own property and would like to get the cars moved onto their property while they still can. They don't have much space, and over the years the collection has deteriorated due to a lack of volunteer participation. Getting rid of the boxcar is the first step in paring down the collection to a size that can be sustained.

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Author:  dinwitty [ Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
doesnt have the outside bracing, but its just wood slats and should be a fairly simple restore.
Author:  fmilhaupt [ Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
Les Beckman wrote:
The Hutchins ends are probably rare; do any other examples of those ends exist?


A single-sheathed 88350-series ex-PM boxcar with Hutchins ends exists at the Taylor Heritage Park in Taylor, Michigan. It had been converted to an MOW car, with doors cut into the ends. The park uses it as a retail shop.

I'll post a photo when I have more time.

The MVRHA's car intrigues me and frustrates me at the same time, as I want to do something to preserve it, but do not realistically have the means to do anything that would meaningfully improve its situation, aside from spreading the word about it.
Author:  j32885 [ Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
Interesting old Woody PM Boxcar. Sad hear it to be scrapped IF or Before Anyone else wants it.

Has anyone at MVRHA thought about talking to any nearby railroad groups IF they wanted it?

Anyone looking at it up close, could to say "terrible condition/unrestoreable". Of course with the right home and game plan IT could be SAVED.

Maybe someone could bring it back home to Michigan. Maybe we could see it at SRI of all places PM 1225's Home in Owosso.
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
Interestingly, from the right side photo, it appears this is a wood framed car, as one of the side posts is visible through the hole in the sheathing. The equipment diagram reproduced in Art Million's book seems to confirm this, as it states "SUPERSTRUCTURE - WOOD."

1923 is very late for a wood framed house car, and this order must be some of the last cars built this way. While the ARA had a double sheathed boxcar as one of their recommended "standard" cars after WWI, that car had steel framing behind the outer sheathing.

So, the repair is likely to be much more involved than just replacing "slats." On the other hand, the car appears complete, even down to the long obsolete Carmer cut levers, and being wood framed, the repair could be a lot easier to do for a group that lacks heavy steel fabrication capabilities.
Author:  rock island lines [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pere Marquette Wooden Boxcar to be Scrapped
Bumping up this relatively important thread since some folks probably missed it.
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