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CNR / CPR / VIA rail lightweight cars
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Author:  ParlourcarII [ Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  CNR / CPR / VIA rail lightweight cars
Over the next few months, I will be uploading various spreadsheets of CNR / CPR / Via Rail light weight passenger cars. There will also be some heavyweight equipment included, as unlike Amtrak, VIA rostered several modernized heavyweight lounge cars, and some non-modernized heavyweight baggage-coach cars, many which had come to CNR in 1919 when it was formed. VIA also acquired a lot of cars which were equiped with ice-activated air conditioning, which served until 1983, when there was a purge of worn out and outdated cars.

I will be using Excel spread sheets as I use Access to save and sort the various passenger cars I have rostered.

The 1 sheet is of 3 sets CNR lightweight sleeping cars. Corrections and additional information is always appreciated

Attachments:
Published.xls [47 KiB]
Downloaded 666 times
Author:  Rainier Rails [ Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNR / CPR / VIA rail lightweight cars
Thanks, Richard!
Author:  ParlourcarII [ Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  CNR - WHITE, LAKE and VALLEY series
During the 1940's, 50's and into the 1960's CNR operated a lot of short routes, which required meal, parlour and sleeping car service, but traffic didn't require full diners, parlour or sleeping cars to be operated. When designing or rebuilding cars, this was taken into consideration with dual purpose, or cars that could be converted to multi-purpose while in service. In this attached spreadsheet is listed the "LAKE", "WHITE" and "VALLEY" cars.

Attachments:
Published.xls [40.5 KiB]
Downloaded 600 times
Author:  Don C. [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNR / CPR / VIA rail lightweight cars
Richard,
Thank you for sharing this great reference work.

As an update for your records, "Ellerslie" has been sold to Iowa Pacific and was moved this past Spring from St. Albans, VT, to Alamosa, CO.
Don C.
Author:  Rainier Rails [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNR / CPR / VIA rail lightweight cars
Thanks again, Richard!

Some notes on several of the E-series 8DXR-4S-4DB, Green-series 6S-6RM-4DB, and I-series 24DXR sleepers:

1. Excelsior listed as sold to Golden Age RY Equipment. Golden Age was owned by Bill Fuehring, who also owned several commuter coaches acquired from the Southeastern Michigan Transportation Authority (SEMTA), which were built as UP 44 seat leg rest chairs; these cars received GOLD reporting marks, I don't know if the Excelsior did.

2. Ellerslie listed as sold to Iron Road RYS-Bangor & Aroostook. As Don posted, the Ellerslie is now owned by Iowa Pacific as SLRG #1125. Photographed by Daniel Carleton at Binghamton, NY, on May 7th, 2014: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3843786

3. Entrance listed as sold to Kasten Railcar Services, listed for sale on Ozark Mountain Railcar website in 2012. Stan Garner's list of #800xxx-series numbers lists the Entrance as #800649; I don't know who owned/owns this car.

4. Green Harbour listed as wrecked in October 1959 at Port Huron, MI. W. David Randall's "Streamliner Cars Volume 1" gives the wreck location as Paris, ONT; the year listed is 1959, but no month. Another conflicting report: Tom Madden's Pullman Project notes that this car was wrecked on 12/28/1957, no location given.

5. Indigo listed as sold to Escanaba & Lake Superior. Stan Garner's list of #800xxx-series numbers lists the Indigo as #800093.

6. Ingramport listed as sold to Mid-Continent RY Museum. The Ingramport is now at the Illinois RY Museum. Pictures here: http://www.irm.org/gallery/Ingramport

7. Innes listed as sold to Escanaba & Lake Superior. Garner lists the Innes as #800095.

8. Ingonish listed as sold to Escanaba & Lake Superior. Garner lists the Ingonish as #800092.

9. Irma listed as sold to the Keokuk Junction RY as a parts source. These parts would have been for KJRY's heavyweight Pullman parlor, the #1 Chief Keokuck [sic] (ex-Wabash City of Wabash, exx-Embassy, nee-PULL), which was built in 1927 in Lot #6065 to Plan #3957B with a drawing room, 25 parlor chairs, and an open platform observation; changed to Plan #3957J in May 1954 when renamed to City of Wabash. The City of Wabash was withdrawn from Pullman lease in August 1956 and subsequently sold to James Seacrest, and at some point it was lettered/numbered as SPRMX1. KJRY later sold the Chief Keokuck to the New Orleans Public Belt; the car was rebuilt to a diner configuration by Pete Messina and renamed Louisiana.

10. Ituna listed as sold to Escanaba & Lake Superior. Garner lists the Ituna as #800094.

Sources:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

2. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

3. Jerry LaBoda's photo links database: http://passcarphotos.info/

4. Stan Garner's list of #800xxx-series numbers: http://www.movie-trains.com/pvlist.html
Author:  Bulby [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNR / CPR / VIA rail lightweight cars
Rainier Rails wrote:
9. Irma listed as sold to the Keokuk Junction RY as a parts source. These parts would have been for KJRY's heavyweight Pullman parlor, the #1 Chief Keokuck

Parts also could have gone to former PULL 8S-1DR-2C John McGloughlin or former IC Diner 3996, both of which are now at IRM.
Author:  ParlourcarII [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNR / CPR / VIA rail lightweight cars - Paris Ontario
Thank you for the various information, hopefully "ELLERSLIE" is going to a good home where a restoration may await her future. A night's sleep in one of the "E" sleepers upper roomettes was always quiet and restful.

"GREEN HARBOUR"
A couple of sources listed, as wrecked in Port Huron MI, but Paris ON (1/2 way between London and Toronto) became a dumping ground (50+ cars) for many CNR and GTW cars in the late 1950's to 1970's, so "GREEN HARBOUR" was probably stored and eventually scrapped at Paris. I was told by someone, that the cars were stripped and set on fire with metal remains sold for scrap. Definitely not something done this day and age. Some of the great Pullmans CNR and GTW acquired in the 1940's met their fate here.
Author:  ParlourcarII [ Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNR - WHITE, LAKE and VALLEY series - DIAGRAMS
I have added diagrams and a few photos to allow comparisons to the various rebuilds. Photos are accessible by link, as the are to large for the site.

(diagram) CNR # 900 - 908 "LAKE" series BUFFET PARLOR, as built

http://parlourcarii.tumblr.com/image/113277840796

(diagram) CNR # 900 - 908 "LAKE" series BUFFET PARLOR, as rebuilt to DINER # 1360 - 1368

http://parlourcarii.tumblr.com/image/113278386351

CNR # 997 - 999 "WHITE" series SLEEPER-GRILL, as rebuilt

A photo comparison of 1954 heavyweight rebuild with the 1938/39 built cars

http://parlourcarii.tumblr.com/image/113429945266

(diagram) CNR # 997 - 999 "WHITE" series SLEEPER-GRILL, as rebuilt

http://parlourcarii.tumblr.com/image/113281007676

(photo) CNR # 998 - 999 "WHITE" series SLEEPER-GRILL, as converted to "HAVEN" series. Note CNR's 1966 modernistic approach to interior design.

http://parlourcarii.tumblr.com/image/113431785171

(diagram) CNR # 1000 - 1009 "WHITE" series SLEEPER-GRILL, as built

http://parlourcarii.tumblr.com/image/113281576051


(diagram) CNR # 1010 - 1013 "WHITE" series SLEEPER-GRILL, as built (note the bedroom has an in room tilting wash sink and hopper, while "VALLEY" series offers a modern double bedroom with enclosed toilet annex)

http://parlourcarii.tumblr.com/image/113432914546

(diagram / photo) CNR # 1010 "WHITE ROCK", rebuilt to DINER # 1303

http://parlourcarii.tumblr.com/image/113433371796

http://parlourcarii.tumblr.com/image/113433459266

(diagram) CNR # 1011 - 1013 "WHITE" series SLEEPER-GRILL, as rebuilt to DINER # 1357 - 1359

http://parlourcarii.tumblr.com/image/113433900016

(diagram) CNR # 1014 - 1019 "VALLEY" series BUFFET-SLEEPER, as built (note the bedroom offers a modern double bedroom with enclosed toilet annex, while the "WHITE" series double bedroom has an in room tilting wash sink and hopper. Almost like the heavyweight 12-1 sleeping car, the car is equipped with 2 vestibules, with washroom / toilet at each end of the car)

http://parlourcarii.tumblr.com/image/113434530441

(diagram) CNR # 1014 - 1019 "VALLEY" series BUFFET-SLEEPER, as rebuilt to DINER # 1351 - 1356

http://parlourcarii.tumblr.com/image/113434635961

(diagram) CLUB-GALLEY, I don't have or can't find an actual diagram for "WHITE" or "VALLEY" series conversions to CLUB-GALLEY, so this generic diagram gives you the idea. The seating and galley arrangement was identical in all of this series, but some cars located the men's and ladies washroom at opposite ends of the car.

http://parlourcarii.tumblr.com/image/113434914941
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNR / CPR / VIA rail lightweight cars
There remain three ex-VIA Rail passenger cars in the yard at Derby Shops, Milo, Maine. They are locked and off-limits because of reported asbestos presence, and possible litigation from over twenty years ago.
There are also three ex-VIA rail passenger cars at Railroad Park, in Phoenix, Arizona.
Author:  ParlourcarII [ Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNR / CPR / VIA rail lightweight cars
Richard Glueck wrote:
There remain three ex-VIA Rail passenger cars in the yard at Derby Shops, Milo, Maine. They are locked and off-limits because of reported asbestos presence, and possible litigation from over twenty years ago.
There are also three ex-VIA rail passenger cars at Railroad Park, in Phoenix, Arizona.


Cars removed from service, because of asbestos problems, were all cars VIA leased or purchased. All cars had been intended for Winnipeg - Churchill service. I also suspect all the ex CNR (VIA's blue cars-non stainless steel) probably had asbestos content, one of the reasons none were modernized or rebuilt during the 1990's HEP program. Any stainless steel cars rebuilt, were stripped completely as part of the rebuild process.

The 1st set were ex Union Pacific "PACIFIC SANDS" & "PACIFIC UNION", which were leased from the Sleeper Line Inc. in 1999 and returned in 2000, due to the asbestos concerns. They operated on VIA using their Amtrak # 2881 & 2890, if they even saw service in Canada.

The next set were leased from Amtrak in 2000. They were # 2448 "OAK GROVE" (ex. SoPac 9004), # 2449 "MAPLE GROVE" (ex. SoPac 9006) and # 2455 "ELM GROVE" (ex. SoPac 9000). In Canada the cars operated keeping their Amtrak numbers, but names were dropped. In 2004 VIA purchased the cars from Amtrak, and cars received as special paint scheme and classed "Northern Spirit" for the Winnipeg - Churchill service. Check the "Passenger Car Photo" http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/VIA1.htm for pictures of the cars in their special paint scheme. By 2008 there were taken out of service, and in 2012 were sold to Ferromex # 15004 - 15006 respectively.
Author:  Rainier Rails [ Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNR / CPR / VIA rail lightweight cars
Richard,

A little more history on the 3 former SP 10-6 sleepers:

Built in 1950 by Budd in Lot #9660-040 to Plan #9522 for the Sunset Limited, 25 cars total, plus 5 more built in Lot #9678-040 to Plan #9522A (these 5 cars had blunt ends with the typical SP light package for end-of-train placement). Of the 25 cars built in Lot #9660-040, Amtrak acquired 20 in 1971 as #2680-#2699. Of these 20, 2 were wrecked in 1973, 2 were sold in 1975-76 to Brian B. Garrett (the Whistle Stop Ranch in Flint, TX), and 1 was sold to the Lake Shore RHS in 1975. The remaining 15 cars were converted to HEP and given Grove-series names in 1980-1981.

The #26xx-series numbers of the 3 cars leased to VIA were:

SP #9000 to Amtrak #2680, received moose decals for Northern Spirit service.

SP #9004 to Amtrak #2684, received polar bear decals for Northern Spirit service.

SP #9006 to Amtrak #2686, received snowy owl decals for Northern Spirit service.

Besides the 3 former SP cars, at the same time VIA also leased 2 former CB&Q 10-6 sleepers, built in 1952 by Budd in Lot #9660-112 to Plan #9531:

CB&Q #430 Silver Chasm, California Zephyr, to BN to Amtrak #2657 converted in 1981 to HEP #2462, leased to VIA with whale decals applied, to FXE #15007.

CB&Q #431 Silver Dale, American Royal Zephyr, to BN to Amtrak #2658 converted in 1984 to HEP #2463, leased to VIA with hawk decals applied, to FXE #15008.
Author:  rrpreservation [ Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNR / CPR / VIA rail lightweight cars
Located In Strasburg, Colorado, is the Canadian National passenger car White Court. The car is owned by Don Shank's Rio Grande Foundation although it has been sitting there for 13 years.

Dan Quiat
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