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| Burlington Northern Merger question and CMSP&P https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37725 |
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| Author: | Dougvv [ Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Burlington Northern Merger question and CMSP&P |
Hi, I was about 13-15 at the time NP, GN, CB&Q, and SP&S merged into BN. I was wondering what conditions (if any) were required for the Milwaukee Road. 1) Was the Milwaukee Road supposed to be the competition? 2) How long was it from the BN merger to when the Milwaukee Road no longer reached the Pacific? 3) Any other interesting merger dealings and tidbits (such as the Milwaukee Road being included in BN). I do recall that the NYC/PRR merger excluded NYNH&H initally but was later added in. Oddly enough, NS and CSX pulled the morass apart "sort of" along NYC/PRR lines. NS access to NYC is over the ex-Reading instead of the PRR "Corridor." Thanks. Doug vV |
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| Author: | Rainier Rails [ Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Burlington Northern Merger question and CMSP&P |
By the time Milwaukee Road embargoed the Pacific Extension at the beginning of March 1980, Lines West was in bad shape. Competition from BN, decisions made with bad timing, and the company's financial burdens (including another backruptcy in 1978) had taken their toll, even though Lines West provided a large majority of the company's revenue. Lines West was offered to BN, which at the time was not focused on the future prospects of transcontinental containerized shipping: the routes they already had were considered more than enough to handle current traffic levels (remember that the ex-NP route over Stampede Pass would also be closed in August 1984, only to be reopened in 1997). I recall reading, although where escapes me, that the MILW had a large burden of backtaxes with the states of Washington, Idaho, and Montana (the Midwest states as well?), and this was another contributing factor to the BN's decision to pass the Lines West to the individual states west of Terry, MT. The former MILW in Washington and Idaho has now been mostly converted to trails, excluding some segments in Eastern WA/ID (UP and a shortline or 2) and trackage in Western Washington, which is used by either Union Pacific or Tacoma Rail (as well as the Mt. Rainier Scenic). |
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| Author: | p51 [ Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Burlington Northern Merger question and CMSP&P |
I know the BN seriously looked into buying the ROW through Snoqualmie for a while as the tunnel there was high enough for stack trains. the MLW arguably had the best of the three grades across the Cascades into WA state. Why the MLW imploded is a very complex issue. Rob Leachman did an amazing lecture about why Lines West went belly up at the Autum Leaf RR slide show in Centralia in October. http://autumnleafslideshow.blogspot.com/2014/08/featured-presenter-rob-leachman.html I'd heard at the time he was writing a book about the death of the RR there, can't wait for it to come out. If the book is as good as his talk was, it'll be must reading for anyone seriously interested in MLW Lines West... |
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| Author: | Lincoln Penn [ Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Burlington Northern Merger question and CMSP&P |
If you can find a copy of "The Nation Pays Again", you will learn a lot. |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Burlington Northern Merger question and CMSP&P |
Yes, The Nation Pays Again, by Thomas H. Ploss is an interesting book. Mr. Ploss was in the Milwaukee Road's legal department. The self-published book was critical of the executive management of the railroad. Last evening, I found an interesting on-line discussion about Mr. Ploss that occured several months after his death in October 2006. Several of the posters reported knew Mr. Ploss and provided some interesting stories/insights about him. Thomas H. Ploss passes away.... |
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| Author: | pwkrueger [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Burlington Northern Merger question and CMSP&P |
This topic doesn't really seem appropriate for this board, but I will add that the BN did actually buy the MILW line over Snoqualmie Pass from Maple Valley, WA to Easton, WA. In the 1980s the State of Washington was eager to get BN to abandon the former Pacific Coast line from Renton to Maple Valley to simplify the reconstruction of I-405 and to use part of the right of way for improvements to SR 169. They even did an environmental assessment (and the preliminary engineering that went with it) for creating a new connection between the BN Stampede Pass line at Ravensdale and the MILW at Trude (about four miles), rebuilding the former MILW from there to Easton, building a new 1,200-foot connection at Easton, and installing CTC on the route. The total cost in 1986 for all of this was estimated to be $27.3 million. BN abandoned Snoqualmie Pass and pulled up the rail within a year or two. Paul Paul Krueger Seattle, WA |
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| Author: | David Johnston [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Burlington Northern Merger question and CMSP&P |
What the Milw Road got was trackage rights from Chicago to New Jersey, making it the only transcontinental to ever exist in the US. The trackage rights still exist. Last time I looked they were being run by CP. |
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| Author: | The Fireman [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Burlington Northern Merger question and CMSP&P |
Anybody who wants to get some real behind the scenes insights into the Milwaukee Road and its history, especially as it relates to the formation of Burlington Northern and the abandonment of Lines West should seriously consider joining the Yahoo Group: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MILW/info Be forwarned, there are 17+ years of discussion on all things Milwaukee to be found there, bring lots of coffee and free time. |
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| Author: | RDGRAILFAN [ Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Burlington Northern Merger question and CMSP&P |
This article from Train orders answers a lot of questions regarding the faiure. http://www.trainweb.org/milwaukee/article.html |
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