I am performing an analysis for our group and ask if your collective minds could help me. I would like to collect data on the costs of a major second life rebuilding of a small to medium size locomotive. I am speaking of a “warm” rebuild. An engine that has been in service and is now worn down and in need of a ground up rebuild with boiler work.

I would welcome statistics on the budgeted and actual costs. I would really value statistics on the volunteer labor hours, but I know those records are often not kept.

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I am making progress on my presentation and have this slide. It is from Danish government statistics. It says, "since the clubs founding (1968) prices have increased 10x". In the years since 1998, the annual increase has been 1.6%.

And that is not including how steam work is harder because so many resources are no longer industry standard.

What makes this so difficult is the fact that once work is underway, so many issues can gobsmack you and drive the cost up.
Boiler issues can pop up like crabgrass. Running gear worn out is another obstacle. Cracks in frame, cylinders, rods and numerous other "little" things can make you pull your hair out.
Kelly's advice to do your due diligence in picking contractors is VERY important. There is no BBB for the industry, so put a large amount of research into this.

Kelly Anderson's tutorial is as good as it gets. He knows from whence he speaks.

And the most valuable part of his excellent posting was the advice that you seriously vet all candidate contractors. Get references, check those references, do real due diligence with industry leaders and yes use Google and all other available tools to do all possible to avoid becoming the next K&T disaster.

An ounce of prevention is worth a ton of correction.

Ross Rowland

To piggyback on Kelly's comments:

I recall a "running rebuild" of a certain medium sized freight loco in recent memory ran us about $160K. That's in-house costs - not retail price. Keep in mind that overhaul was performed a few years ago, with a corresponding inflation-induced reduction in labor and material costs versus this present moment.

As Kelly says, "your mileage may vary", and may vary wildly. I absolutely agree with him that a well equipped, heated shop with an overhead crane can add magnitudes to the efficiency of an overhaul, significantly reducing overall end costs. I've always been grateful to have access to that type of facility when performing mechanical work.

Rehabbing the rolling equipment we love so much is not for the financially faint of heart.

Erich Armpriester
Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Services

I did some digging into our records from way back when and can share the following.

As many of you know the AFT Foundation received a letter around Christmas 1974 from the folks at Conrail stating that locomotive SP 4449 would not be allowed east of Chicago on account of its height. By then there had been massive amounts of publicity in the nations press highlighting the prominent role steam was to play in celebrating our 200th. birthday.

Long story short I found 2 ex-RDG. T-1 locomotives in a Baltimore, Md. scrap yard, bought them for $ 25K ( for both), had them moved across town to the B&O's Riverside Roundhouse and selected the 2101 as the one to run again and her sister 2100 to be a parts lender as needed.

On Feb. 27, 1975 worked commenced and the effort was an all out race against time as the Freedom Train had a very public commitment to open in Wilmington Del. on April 1 and all 16,000 tickets for that day had already been sold. There was also a date with the president of the USA for a ceremony to unveil the train in Alexandria, Va. enroute from Cameron Station, Va. to Wilmington, Del. up the NEC.

Led by the late Bill Benson of Akron, Ohio the effort was mounted by a full time gang of 49 workers assisted by a small Army of about 200 volunteers. On Saturday's there would be as many as 75-100 people working all over the locomotive and off to the sides on appliances etc.

On March 27th. exactly 30 days later the 2101 backed out of her stall under her own power. The paint was still tacky but run she did. On March 28th. she pulled a short train to Hagerstown, Md. over the WMRR. On March 29th. she pulled a short train back from Hagerstown to Baltimore. Both runs were successful with no major bugs discovered.

On March 30th. she arrived at Cameron Station to get on the head end of the 24 car long AFT consist with 5 minutes to spare for its leaving time.

Now well known as the " 30 day miracle" which it truly was, we spent $ 255,00 ( 1975 dollars = $ 1,300,000 2022 dollars).

In 1979-80 we did a thorough rebuild of ex- C&O 614 in the Hagerstown,Md. Roundhouse . That effort took 13 months and cost $ 975,000 ( 1979 dollars = $3,640,000 2022 dollars.

As Kelly stated there's no fixed formula to use to estimate going in what any locomotive restoration will end up costing.

I tell folks that the best you can do is come up with a VERY wide ballpark GUESSTIMATE based on past experiences. My WAG number if pressed is for a mainline locomotive restoration you're going to spend from $ 1.5MM to $ 5.0MM depending on what is found when you've got her all apart and all the boiler calculations done.

I also tell folks that if anyone, repeat anyone tells you that they can give you a solid estimate going in, thank them for their time and then run like hell away from them.

Hope this helps, Ross Rowland

Another “30 day miracle “ is unlikely with today’s code 230 requirements for new form 4 calculations.

Dear Ross - thanks for that. Actually, I think you might be able to comment further.

I am sure you are grateful it went as well as it did. I infer from your story that the whole need for a second steam locomotive was a surprise, and thus the rush job. What made the rush job possible?

-) was it just brute force of money and labor?
-) was the second engine as parts source critical?
-) were the engines actually in good condition?

Also - was the engine actually reliable? In the following years of Chessie excursion service, did it need further work?

Thanks
Steven

As I have developed our presentation (which will be on Sunday), I have read through the history of our prior rebuild projects. Every single one of them went over time and over budget. One of our engines, OKMJ 14, was estimated, in 1973, to require 3 years to bring to service, but actually required 7 years. Our DSB K 582 started rebuild in 1980, but not with priority because of running repairs on the other fleet. It received a 30,000 euro donation from Ansaldo in 2004, but did not run test runs until late 2008. It served seven years, and then was laid up with severe boiler problems in 2016.

Our HHGB 4 engine started renovation in 2003, and is only this year expected to be in service this year. At least 1,676,000 Danish kroner have been spent (the records are not complete, about 300,000 US dollar). Unfortunately, a number of items have been disassembled multiple times because earlier work was done only to the bare minimum, and then later standards were tougher and required rework.

Yet, the collective memory is short, and colleagues still try to budget projects on the low side.

Steven, Yes, the rush job was made necessary by our getting notice from Conrail 3 months prior to our Grand Opening that the locomotive we had been counting on to perform the honors was too tall to do the job.

In order to keep the advertised commitment to steam we had only 89 days to find a suitable substitute.

The 30 day miracle was made possible by a huge work force, large funds and strong support from the corporate sponsors.

To my knowledge no other steam locomotive restoration has come even remotely close to equaling that accomplishment.

Could it ever be duplicated today? Maybe with just the right team and lots and lots of good luck.

Ross Rowland

If one were to take a lightly used locomotive sidelined by dying on the calendar, known to be in good condition and only needing to have the 1472 inspection and tube job done, with money and a good well equipped shop and well trained crew it could be possible. That's to put it back in light service, not to rebuild like new. Given many organizations operate few occasions or miles per year in light demonstration service, restoring to new condition isn't always required or feasible to work out the next calendar-driven deadline.

Smaller locomotives cost less than comparably conditioned large locomotives provided you don't consider cost by the pound........

I think our friends the Gramlings may have something worthy to contribute to this conversation if they are so inclined.

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Would the restoration of LS&I 18 be the next closest? I know it was brought into service for the opening of GCRy very quickly in Aug/Sept 1989. However, I think an aborted restoration had been started by Lake States Steam Association, so it definitely wasn't a 30-day from scratch rebuild. Has that story ever been told in detail?

Imperial Valley Irrigation 0-4-0T+T?