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| Request for whistle drawings. https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38035 |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Tue May 05, 2015 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Request for whistle drawings. |
New England Steam Corporation has the need for drawings of a Crosby 8" three chime bronze whistle. This is for Maine Central 470 restoration. Can anyone share a copy. No, we are not selling whistles, this is for a single full-scale operative whistle. Please PM me or email newenglandsteamcorp@gmail.com Dick |
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| Author: | Bobharbison [ Tue May 05, 2015 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Request for whistle drawings. |
Richard Glueck wrote: No, we are not selling whistles, this is for a single full-scale operative whistle. Why not sell whistles? You'll have to do all the work to create your single copy. Why not make some more, sell them, and generate some revenue? No, I don't want one, just curious as to why this possible source of revenue was so quickly dismissed. I presume you wouldn't be competing with an existing manufacturer, otherwise you'd just call them and say "I'll take one of those please..." |
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| Author: | tvrm349 [ Tue May 05, 2015 5:26 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Request for whistle drawings. | ||
An 8" diameter Crosby will look out of place on the 470, if this is what you have in mind for it. Here is a picture of a 6" diameter Crosby beside an 8" diameter chime whistle that Southern Railway made before Crosby got after them for copyright infringement, as it was basically the same whistle. Southern then went to the 6" diameter "steamboat" whistle like the one on the 1401 at the Smithsonian.
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| Author: | Jersey steam [ Tue May 05, 2015 7:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Request for whistle drawings. |
Can't you purchase the whistle you need? Making a whistle which isn't all cobbled looking requires a lot of work. For CNJ 113, we wanted an exact step top 3 chime whistle. I measured an original many years ago, and we decided to make our own after inquiring on this site and not having any luck finding one. I made the pattern and core boxes for the bell which required MANY hours of work and did the finish work which also required MANY hours of work (see rrproject113.org, patternmaking). At that time finished bowl/valves were available in California and we purchased several. They are no longer available, so if we wish to make more, we would have to make our own patterns for the bowl/valve. I figure that a new whistle like that mentioned above would cost about $4,000 to cover costs and a few dollars per hour to finish it. This does not count the time making the patterns. I don't see many people purchasing any. I am not in the whistle business and when we made the replicas, a few people close to the project did get some, but it is not something I would like to regularly do. I also agree that an 8" whistle would not look good on the 470. What kind of whistle did it have originally? Bernie |
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| Author: | Joe Dailey [ Tue May 05, 2015 7:50 pm ] | ||||
| Post subject: | Re: Request for whistle drawings. | ||||
Pictures of 470, like the one below, show it with the same 3 note that Maine Central used on many engines. They had tops that look like short bell Hancock flat tops, with bowls that look exactly like Boston & Maine's (homeade) bowls. I've heard of a few of these in private collections, and I know there is one on the Moore-Keppel Climax at Durbin, WV. I think it had the whistle when it went back to WV from the Connecticut Trolley Museum. Picture attached; you can see the whistle in front of the cab if you zoom in. Agreed--it would likely be cheaper to buy an original 8" Crosby than to cast and machine a replica.
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| Author: | Loco112 [ Tue May 05, 2015 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Request for whistle drawings. |
http://www.crosby-steam.co Nearly all steam locomotives used a 6" whistle, after the cast whistles became ubiquitous. Thats why the 6" is often referred to as a "locomotive" whistle. The 6" single and multi-chime Locomotive whistles were often 6.675" - 7" in od. at the "Bell". The annular discharge ring on most of those whistles was the only part that actually measures close to 6" in. There are whistle makers in business now; MD Whistles: http://www.mdwhistles.com/ The Whistle Shop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIe5NXPFm0c And there are others. To get out at a lower cost, you could just use whatever base valve they have patterned now, and get them to replicate (fabricate) the bell you need. That would sound exactly like the whistle you want and you would save $3000. |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Tue May 05, 2015 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Request for whistle drawings. |
Gentlepersons, there are good reasons why I requested drawings. I agree, buying one from an antique dealer or collector would make good sense, and probably be less expensive, but at the present, I can assure you, in lieu of an individual handing one to us, perhaps the individual who took the original from the locomotive back in the 1960's, this is a course we wish to explore. The Climax in the photo has, I believe, a genuine MEC passenger whistle. We're fairly certain of the size of the original whistle as well. It stuck way up above the boiler, like a thumb. |
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| Author: | Joe Dailey [ Tue May 05, 2015 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Request for whistle drawings. |
Richard Glueck wrote: The Climax in the photo has, I believe, a genuine MEC passenger whistle. We're fairly certain of the size of the original whistle as well. I think you're right--it's a real Maine Central whistle; but it's a 6", not an 8" whistle. An 8" Crosby would be WAY deeper pitched, sounding nothing like the original. A 6" Crosby would be way closer. |
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| Author: | Loco112 [ Wed May 06, 2015 2:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Request for whistle drawings. |
http://www.crosby-steam.co Craig Bliss, ex-Crosby employee, who maintains the website for the historic Crosby archives will help you get the complete set for that whistle, and all other available info, to add to your collection. They need all the sales they can get. Please let this forum know how this turns out. I'm also very interested in the 6" Crosby 3-chime whistle info. |
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| Author: | Rick Rowlands [ Wed May 06, 2015 7:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Request for whistle drawings. |
Why even devote scarce resources into a whistle replication project at this time, when it will be years before the 470 can make the steam to blow it? As the restoration project progresses someone might surface with the original whistle, or you may find another one of the same style. It would be a big waste of money and time to build a new whistle only to then find an original. How many tubes would $4,000 buy, or staybolts replaced, or new grates cast, etc.? BTW I have drawings for a 6" Baldwin 3 chime if anyone is interested. Looks just like the Crosby. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed May 06, 2015 8:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Request for whistle drawings. |
I, too, think it's going to be foolish to construct from scratch a whistle that may cost several thousand when it would be better to "kitbash" a new bell atop a spare bowl and valve. And I fully agree, if you go to the trouble to build it, a couple real ones will surface quickly. (I heard something like five whistles for PRR 1361 surfaced the day they test-fired it and tried to blow its unrepaired whistle with bad results.) But as for priorities, I hate to say this, but a shiny, restored whistle is one of THE best PR tools they will have. Having that whistle to show off, and maybe blowing it for the TV cameras on a big Case tractor next to the 470, is one of the most attention-garnering (and money-raising) gimmicks they could do. Just be sure it actually works BEFORE you call the TV stations. Don't repeat the debacle of the Titanic expedition trying to blow an enormous triad whistle on an air compressor. (And if you still think that whistle was 8" rather than 6", seek experienced consultants immediately.) |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Wed May 06, 2015 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Request for whistle drawings. |
Everyone's advice is well taken, and agreed, $4,000 will buy a great number of staybolts. That being said, don't assume there is an exchange of dollars in this equation. Now if somebody wishes to donate such a whistle to NESCO, I can assure them of credit and regular publication of their generosity. Alex #4 is absolutely correct regarding press and donations. It's a huge fund raising opportunity, and even if the/an original whistle is recovered, as a demonstration/educational tool, it is invaluable to 470's cause. Rick, I very much appreciate your mention of the Baldwin 3 chime. I want to make one other critical point regarding locomotive restoration. I was a science teacher in my "paid employment" days. Science lessons are the most difficult prep for successful teaching. I see a strong parallel in my work with 470. I want to lesson to go well, I want it to outcome successfully, and I want the end result to have long lasting power. Folks, people on the front end of an effort like this have to look forward, not just until the evaluation, but in terms of readiness to perform for years to come. The steps we are taking have purpose and are well reasoned. Still, it is gratifying that observers care so much about the result, they ask questions. |
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| Author: | Earl Knoob [ Wed May 06, 2015 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Request for whistle drawings. |
I wondered where #3's whistle came from. Now I know. It has a nice pretty, mellow tone. But we only put 125 lbs through it. Earl Durbin, WV |
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| Author: | Peter Violette [ Wed May 06, 2015 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Request for whistle drawings. |
I'm taking the blame for determining it was an 8". The diameter of the safeties were about 7" and the whistle did not look to be smaller than the safeties. I assumed 6" meant the diameter of the top of the bell was 6" and it didn't make sense for it to be smaller. Notice how the ports (lack of better term) on each chime on 470's are "squared off". Every crosby I've seen has rounded ports except for some 8". 470's could be modified as I have yet to find a whistle where they are as squared as hers. See photos  8"  6" 
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed May 06, 2015 1:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Request for whistle drawings. |
There are far better experts than me out there, but check out Ashton or Lonergan whistles. |
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