Hi,

The T1 4-4-4-4 duplex recreation is an exciting project and I look forward to seeing it.

After the Great Dismal Swamp crash, Southern put a 35 or 40 MPH speed limit on all steam excursions.

Has NS changed this limitation? If not, where might she stretch her legs?

Thanks.

Doug vV

Doug,

The 40mph restriction is still on NS steam. I have asked their chairman that question before and he told me they expect 90% of operation to be at 40-50mph. The high speed runs will likely be done at Pueblo, NM at the test track. He said the group has been in contact with the folks at Pueblo and have full requirements. Everything they are doing and how they are doing it falls under the testing and simulations required by the test facility. I am not an engineer, so I don't know all the correct lingo, but I know they are documenting everything they do so they can provide those records to the test track for permission to conduct high speed testing.

I asked about how they would get there if UP or BNSF would not let them run on their own wheels and he said they would move it like another T-1 just did, on a flat car.

Amtrak may be an option, but we are likely 15 years out unless someone steps up with a big check. Who knows what railroads will be around then.

Ted

Straight from the T1 site:


"3-26-15
5550 Has Rails To Run On

The question most asked to the T1 Trust is, "Where will it run when complete?". We are pleased to announce that the Trust has received three letters of invitation to operate on various railroad lines around the country. We have received formal letters from Steamtown National Historic Site in Scranton, PA, the Steam Railroading Institute in Owosso, MI and the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad in Independence, OH. All three organizations have a long track record of handling mainline steam locomotives and can easily support the T1 locomotive operation when complete."

(http://www.prrt1steamlocomotivetrust.org/news.php)


Having spoken to Mr. Noble, Chairman of the board, the trust has been in contact with the Pueblo High-Speed test track and if the PRR T-1 can meet the test track requirements, they will be welcome to conduct tests there.

As for moving the T-1 5550 to the test track, couldn't it be towed in a freight? It wouldn't be impossible to get her there, just take some creativity, perseverance, and $$$.

Once again backing my hypothesis that few "foamers" will be content with just seeing her operate at all.

Hi,

That sounds great but maybe I did not get my thought across completely. Scranton - is there trackage kept up for 90-100 MPH operation?

How about the other two?

I do not mind steam operating anywhere, but I was wondering more about over 50-55 MPH.

Pueblo Test Track would certainly work. Would it be available for excursions?

I suspect the former PRR NE Corridor could handle the speed.

At one time there was talk of the New Mexico Raton Pass line being bought by NM for their transit. That might do for 79MPH - close if they keep the maintenance levels up.

Thanks.

Doug vV

The last time i was there, the Pueblo test track was in Colorado.

I strongly suspect this thing will never hit 90 mph. The risks are just too great.

If it does, it would most likely be at the Pueblo test track and it certainly won't be a passenger run.

It could run at 40 mph on NS. Maybe at 60 MPH on some other mainline route.

Would that make it a failure? Would anyone come out to see it if the engine can't run at it's top speed?

Let's imagine this. Let's say you took SP 4449 or SP&S 700 and restricted them to 15 mph. Maybe some local shortline that only had class 1 track let's say. Obviously nobody would come out to ride that, would they? I mean after all, 4449 only looks good going 60 mph or more, right? Certainly not worth coming out to see her loafing along at 10 mph or so. They'd never fill the train! It would be a total disaster. Good thing they never tried it... ;)

I am fairly familiar with the ex-B&O Cleveland, Terminal and Valley Subdivision over which the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic operates. Unless the track has been significantly upgraded, the speed restriction on the line when under CSX control, until it was turned over to the National Park Service, was 30 MPH between Akron Jct. and RD Tower, just south of the Clark Avenue yard in Cleveland.

Ted Krumreich

.

Lets see if I'm reading this correctly. So, cubic dollars get spent to build a new 100 MPH + capable tea kettle. It has limited to no opportunities to operate at any more than 1/3 to 2/3 of its speed capability. Sounds a little like building a new Concorde to dust crops. We never get to see or experience it doing anything we can't do a nice new GE diesel electric at a fraction of the cost.

Meanwhile the cubic dollars that might could help out somewhere in preservation go to fund a novelty that will never reach its full potential. Future cubic dollars can be spent to keep it operational. " Its the gift that keeps on giving Clark".

This is good for us (the rail preservation us that is). I like it.

ETA

One might complain that the funds for the T-1 trust are just going down a rabbit hole, but gee, how many people would invest in a "Jurassic Park" if they could prove the methodology (and buy a small country to house it).

The ability to revive a lost technology/artifact is every bit as important, if not more so, than the incremental preservation/restoration of a squad of other engines. Here we have an engine that anecdotally (sic) was able to run 110 mph. Just because they have nowhere to run it now doesn't mean that situation will exist then.

Granted, it might be a dead end. Our nation has become so risk averse that some would probably ban them from even firing the boiler for fear of "something". Still, even that situation may well change in the course of the next decade.

I have a friend who wound up in possession of a small Case steam traction engine. He was really sitting on the wall about spending the money to do a UT and pursue state certification.... until one respected graybeard said that he'd never get the thing approved and he'd never get it running. Well, he succeeded and the engine runs. Perhaps the novelty of the project lies not in the actual utility, but in the challenge that "we" can get this done, despite naysayers, lawyers and hacks who would rather avoid the risk of failure and just stay with the tried and true.

While I have not donated money to the T-1 trust (sooo enjoying the "new economy") if there was a group that I would give to, they would be near the head of the list.

I wish them every success. Maybe they can bring that engine up onto MRL and (with insurance papers in hand) get on the big straight west of Laurel Montana and see what that T-1 can do (at least up to 79 mph anyway).

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT

fire it up and run it there itself. Make it an excursion run.

BUT, to really test it, put it on some kind of rollers stationary and try some speed tests that way...first. Be sure everybody is away from the rods during this.

So, just a parallel thought... totally fictional scenario that's in no danger of happening, but it involves an existing locomotive which has a history of high speed operation.

If the boys in St Thomas suddenly had a miracle of funding, and an even greater miracle that CN would let CN Hudson "5700" (5703) return to the Kingston Subdivision...

...people will say "No, don't do it", just because she wouldn't, in today's world, be allowed to run at speeds well over 100 mph (reportedly up to 120) like she did years ago east of Brockville?

Really????????????

Yes, I loved riding behind CN Mountain #6060 at 90 mph... it was thrilling. However, I also loved chugging along at 25-30mph on her branchline rambles. Maybe not as exciting, but equally enjoyable.

Would I pay to ride behind 5700 at branchline speeds? Yes, in a heartbeat.

Would I pay to ride behind the newly built T-1 at branchline speeds? Absolutely!

This thing isn't just about railfan gratification, either. There is a huge volume of knowledge that will be created/ rediscovered/ documented, and a great deal of technical ideas that will filter down to all operating steam, even some little 0-4-0T kettle that runs a few times a year at your local museum. You never know, depending on the locomotive's performance, it could bring a huge amount of attention to steam traction in general.

Don't get me wrong, big steam at speed is a wonderful thing. But it's wonderful at any speed.

And in closing... this myth that building the T-1 will suck up all possible funding for other preservation is false. It's very likely that most of the funding this group will receive would never have been offered to preservation groups. Call it fear of competition, perhaps...

Steve Hunter

you really have to fire up O Winston Links recording, Thunder on Blue Ridge, that enacts the drama on the mainline...and its slow speed

The only comment I have to add is a sliver of optimism that we often don't think about in our realm of preservation. Yes, money is always tight and hard to come by in railroad preservation and restoration, and the T1 project is no different. But an important lesson can be learned from the ongoing saga of the SS United States. This is a project that burns through $80,000 a month just to keep the ship tied to a dock. This is not money going to restoration, or renovation, or returning her to the high seas. No, this amount of money is directly tied to keeping her in the current condition she is in, docked in Philadelphia along with administrative costs (http://www.ssusc.org/americas-flagship/questions-answers/)(http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crumbling-ghost-ship-ss-united-states-fights-to-return-from-the-brink-of-the-grave/2014/07/30/c8a25464-181a-11e4-9349-84d4a85be981_story.html).

Think about this: What could a reputable rail preservation group do with the money that has been spent simply to keep the SS United States from meeting the scrapper's torch? The possibilities boggle the mind, but suffice to say that such a number could perform a complete return to operation on most preserved steam locomotives out there today, regardless of condition and in most cases you'd likely have a considerable sum afterwards.

The takeaway here is that the money IS out there, and that there will be those who will find such expenditures worth it.