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GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38083		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  mruanejr [ Mon May 18, 2015 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
Howdy folks -
The title says it all - can it be done? Are parts/kits still available? I'd prever not to convert the entire truck, if it doesn't have to be done...

Thanks-

Mike
Author:  AlcoC420 [ Mon May 18, 2015 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
GE 80 tons have been converted and you still can if you have enough money.

There were some former military units around that had been converted.

Nothing wrong with friction, if you maintain them.
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Mon May 18, 2015 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
mruanejr wrote:
Howdy folks -
The title says it all - can it be done? Are parts/kits still available? I'd prever not to convert the entire truck, if it doesn't have to be done...

Thanks-

Mike


Why?
Author:  mruanejr [ Tue May 19, 2015 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
Dennis Storzek wrote:
mruanejr wrote:
Howdy folks -
The title says it all - can it be done? Are parts/kits still available? I'd prever not to convert the entire truck, if it doesn't have to be done...

Thanks-

Mike


Why?


Dennis-

Because, it can't be transported across the national rail network with friction bearings, correct?
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Tue May 19, 2015 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
I thought that's what they make flatcars for... and in this day and age, it will likely have a better chance of arriving at its destination without damage.

Plus, it will still be historically accurate.
Author:  David Johnston [ Tue May 19, 2015 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
You need to ask each railroad that is going to handle it what their requirements are going to be. Bearings, couplers, and brakes could all be issues. Some of the small GE locomotives had fairly limited top speeds, which could impact a railroads willingness to handle it.

To put roller bearings on it will probably require stripping the axles so they can be remachined or replaced. The journal boxes will have to be replaced with bearing adapters. At one time Timken or GE probably made them. You will have to see if adaptors are still available.

If it is a matter of moving the locomotive to a new home, I would be looking at loading it on a flat car on in a gondola.
Author:  Dave [ Tue May 19, 2015 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
Didn't I hear something about traction motors getting birdnested by being hauled dead in service at speed? More reason to load on a flatcar.

dave
Author:  Rick Rowlands [ Tue May 19, 2015 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
I will be moving an 80 tonner on a QTTX flatcar, the same type that Reading 2100 moved on, this fall. It is going from McDonald, OH to North East, PA on CSXT. The charge for the heavy duty flatcar is about $2,000, and the CSX freight rate is $3,075. Cost to load and unload is estimated at $3,000 at each end. Tie downs consist of 3/4" wire rope, clips, thimbles and burnouts for welding to the flatcar deck and locomotive frame.

The cost of the flatcar is pretty cheap, and so are the cranes if you compare it to the cost of converting a locomotive to roller bearings. Then there are the issues of non alignment control couplers and bringing the brake valves up to current spec. Roller bearings on the journals aren't the only thing to worry about as the TM nose bearings are also pf the plain type and may cause problems in transit. It has to be north of five grand per axle just to turn the journals down and press on new roller bearings.

I've worked for CSX in a past life, and I know first hand that my former fellow railroaders have no patience for equipment that is out of the ordinary. I would not want any of my equipment out there being shipped on its own wheels unless it is modern enough to be just like everything else, and something they recognize.

If you choose to ship by flatcar, PM me and we can talk. I'll share the "approved" tie down design with you, and may even be willing to let you use my tie down hardware once our move has been made.

Thank God for QTTX flatcars! The NEW WAY for historic rail equipment to travel in the 21st. Century!
Author:  Pegasuspinto [ Tue May 19, 2015 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
The GE 25 ton manual limits speed to about 20mph, dead or alive, unless you press off the pinion so the motor does not spin.
Author:  artschwartz [ Tue May 19, 2015 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
I think that all of the GE industrial locomotives with double reduction gearing have similar speed limits.
Author:  Rick Rowlands [ Wed May 20, 2015 7:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
The 80 tonners do not have the double reduction gearboxes and are good for 60 mph I think. Have to check the manual.
Author:  David H. Hamley [ Wed May 20, 2015 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
Have I not read somewhere that the railroads will no longer handle any loco under 100 tons on its own wheels, regardless of all other factors?
Author:  AlcoC420 [ Wed May 20, 2015 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
Hot Metal wrote:
The 80 tonners do not have the double reduction gearboxes and are good for 60 mph I think. Have to check the manual.



Not all GE 80 tonners are go for 60 mph. The series built in the early 1950's are only go for 30 mph because of their gearboxes.

Two years ago we moved an 1951 GE 80 tonner on it's own wheels, on a class one railroad. It had bolt on coupler pockets, friction bearings and the gearboxes to deal with. This was only moved for a very large shipper of the railroad, from one facility to another, about 12 miles.

The inspector as me if it needed a speed restriction and I told him the max was 30 mph, but I would like it kept under 20. The local was short of work and picked it up one day, a company employee followed to watch their speed and the locomotive arrived without any problems.

If your locomotive has good wheels, I would not even thing about converting it. We moved this locomotive once on a semi without any problems. We took it off it's trucks, loaded it and moved it one day and reassembled it the next.

Even the cost of trucking it would be less then the cost of converting it to roller bearings. If it has the gearboxes of the newer style, then the gearboxes have to be taken apart to convert the axles. BIG MONEY!
Author:  Emmo213 [ Wed May 20, 2015 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
Hot Metal wrote:
I will be moving an 80 tonner on a QTTX flatcar, the same type that Reading 2100 moved on, this fall. It is going from McDonald, OH to North East, PA on CSXT. The charge for the heavy duty flatcar is about $2,000, and the CSX freight rate is $3,075. Cost to load and unload is estimated at $3,000 at each end. Tie downs consist of 3/4" wire rope, clips, thimbles and burnouts for welding to the flatcar deck and locomotive frame.


Slightly off topic but I'd like to thank Rick for providing this information. Normally whenever people talk about equipment moves they said "that'll cost at least $10k" but there isn't any break down on what that cost actually covers. I know his prices are specific for his move but it's nice to see a bit more of what's actually involved.
Author:  Rick Rowlands [ Wed May 20, 2015 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: GE 80 Tonner Friction to Roller Bearing conversion
Alco C420, your comment about the wheel condition having some bearing on the RB conversion got me wondering. Is it not possible to turn down the plain journals for RB conversion? Are the plain journals too small in diameter for a proper press fit?

Emmo213, thanks. I too have experienced the same phenomenon. A lot of stuff gets moved but those doing the moving never reveal what it costs to do it, or give a rather large ballpark figure.
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