Another one for the sleuths...

Supposedly, this is C&O Pullman Heavyweight baggage car #395. Does anyone know if this car is still around and where it might be residing?

Thanks in advance,
/Andrew

Greenfield Village in Michigan...

G.

Thanks for the lead!

Is it possible that the car has either been sold or scrapped? The only car that even remotely looks like a possibility is shown in bing maps, but then appears to have been moved in google maps.

http://www.5z8.info/lemon-party-redux_n1y4da_snufffilms

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4PFDI ... sp=sharing

/Andrew

I don't think that car is at Greenfield Village or has been in decades.

Hi Andrew
Do you know the last location of the car, or where the photo was taken ?

Pat,

If I were to venture a guess, I would probably say that the car was photographed at the Henry Ford Greenfield village in the early to mid nineties. However, I cannot say that with 100% certainty.

Something of note is that the car appears to have had its doors sealed off, similar to baggage car #389 in Clifton Forge, VA. This would suggest that it served as a MOW storage car at some point during its career.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2692154

/Andrew

The #395 was one of several rebuilt from surplus Pullman parlors and baggage-smokers acquired in 1941: built in 1913 in Lot #4158 as the Gilberton, a Plan #2415 baggage-4 section-22 seat smoker with writing desk for the PRR, changed to Plan #2415A in 2/30. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/30/1941, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O and rebuilt to baggage #395.

Other cars converted were:

Horse-express cars:

#210, built in 1912 in Lot #3986 as the Larabee, a Plan #2416 26 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR, listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 8/5/41. Listed in the 1965 folio as rebuilt in 3/42. Listed in error by Wayner as rebuilt to #212.

#211 & #212. These 2 cars were rebuilt in 4/42 and 9/42 respectively. One was formerly the Ervina, the other was the Pierette. As both are listed by Wayner as rebuilt to #212, I haven't been able to determine which was which. Both cars were built in 1914 in Lot #4264 to Plan #2416A (26 seat parlor-1DR); the Ervina for the NYNH&H and the Pierette for the NYC. These 2 cars are listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 7/18 and 7/21/41 respectively, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

Baggage cars:

#213, built in 1914 in Lot #4264 as the Jessalyn, a Plan #2416A 26 seat parlor-1DR for the NYNH&H. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 7/18/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#214, built in 1910 in Lot #3862 as the Curry, a Plan #2418 28 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 7/22/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#215, built in 1912 in Lot #3951 as the Fanette, a Plan #2418 28 seat parlor-1DR for the NYC. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 7/21/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

Were the #213-#215 also horse-express?

#381, built in 1910 in Lot #3861 as the Dauphin, a Plan #2419 32 seat parlor for the PRR, temporarily changed to Plan #2419A 11/22 to 12/23. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 8/6/41.

#382, built in 1910 in Lot #3862 as the Bengies, a Plan #2418 28 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 8/1/41.

#383, built in 1917 in Lot #4493 as the Supervia, a Plan #2417D 24 seat parlor-1DR-buffet for the general service pool, changed to Plan #2417F in 6/32. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 8/4/41.

#384, built in 1913 in Lot #4137 as the Senta, a Plan #2417A 24 seat parlor-1DR-buffet for the NYC. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/20/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#385, built in 1916 in Lot #4366 as the Charmion, a Plan #2416C 26 seat parlor-1DR for the B&O. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 7/22/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#386, built in 1912 in Lot #3948 as the Culvermere, a Plan #2602 baggage (postal storage)-2 section-18 seat club smoker with writing desk-buffet-barber shop for the NYC and general service pool. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 7/1/41.

#387, built in 1912 in Lot #3948 as the Overfield, a Plan #2602 baggage (postal storage)-2 section-18 seat club smoker with writing desk-buffet-barber shop for the NYC and general service pool. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/27/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#388, built in 1912 in Lot #3948 as the Ontwood, a Plan #2602 baggage (postal storage)-2 section-18 seat club smoker with writing desk-buffet-barber shop for the NYC and general service pool. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/30/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#389, built in 1912 in Lot #3948 as the Franklin, a Plan #2602 baggage (postal storage)-2 section-18 seat club smoker with writing desk-buffet-barber shop for the NYC and general service pool. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/27/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O. The #389 is now owned by the C&O Historical Society in Clifton Forge, VA, "Surviving Pullman" thread line item #242.

#390, built in 1912 in Lot #3948 as the Montclair, a Plan #2602 baggage (postal storage)-2 section-18 seat club smoker with writing desk-buffet-barber shop for the NYC and general service pool. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 7/1/41.

#391, built in 1916 in Lot #4392 as the Green Lodge, a Plan #2919 baggage-2 section-28 seat club smoker with writing desk-buffet for the NYNH&H. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/30/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#392, built in 1916 in Lot #4392 as the South Wilton, a Plan #2919 baggage-2 section-28 seat club smoker with writing desk-buffet for the NYNH&H. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 7/1/41.

#393, built in 1916 in Lot #4392 as the Gray Gables, a Plan #2919 baggage-2 section-28 seat club smoker with writing desk-buffet for the NYNH&H. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 7/1/41.

#394, built in 1913 in Lot #4158 as the Harrisburg, a Plan #2415 baggage-2 section-22 seat smoker with writing desk for the PRR, changed to Plan #2415A in 9/29. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/27/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#396, built in 1912 in Lot #3946 as the Buffington, a Plan #2415 baggage-2 section-22 seat smoker with writing desk for the NYC. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 7/1/41.

#397, built in 1910 in Lot #3834 as the Irvona, a Plan #2415 baggage-2 section-22 seat smoker with writing desk for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 7/1/41. The Irvona is listed in error by Wayner as rebuilt to baggage car #386.

#398, built in 1909 in Lot #3660 as the Commodore, a Plan #2136C baggage-2 section-22 seat smoker with writing desk for the Congressional Limited, renamed Uniontown in August 1910, changed to Plan #2136G (no date). Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/30/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#399, built in 1923 in Lot #4698 as the Amboy, a Plan #2951 baggage-4 section-12 seat club smoker with writing desk-buffet-barber shop for the NYC, changed to Plan #2951F in 9/30. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 7/1/41.

Coaches:

At least the lowest-numbered cars (#600-#604, #606) had 84 seats, according to the 1965 passenger car diagram folio. Was that the capacity for all 25 of these cars?

#600, built in 1912 in Lot #4052 as the Candace, a Plan #2416 26 seat parlor-1DR for the LV. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/25/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O and rebuilt in 9/41.

#601, built in 1912 in Lot #3951 as the Avena, a Plan #2418 28 seat parlor-1DR for the NYC. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/25/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O, rebuilt in 10/41.

#602, built in 1910 in Lot #3862 as the Gap, a Plan #2418 28 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 6/27/41, rebuilt in 10/41.

#603, built in 1912 in Lot #3986 as the Lansdowne, a Plan #2416 26 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/23/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O and rebuilt in 10/41.

#604, built in 1913 in Lot #4107 as the Philemon, a Plan #2416 26 seat parlor-1DR for the NYC. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/23/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O and rebuilt in 9/41.

#605, built in 1914 in Lot #4264 as the Beatrice, a Plan #2416A 26 seat parlor-1DR for the B&O. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/20/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#606, built in 1910 in Lot #3804 as the Dresher, a Plan #2416 26 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to PM on 8/1/41, listed by Wayner as sold to C&O, rebuilt in 9/41.

#607, built in 1910 in Lot #3804 as the Girdletree, a Plan #2416 26 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/26/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#608, built in 1912 in Lot #3986 as the Washington, a Plan #2416 26 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR, renamed Sunbrook in 1/14, renamed Agatha in 5/24. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/24/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#609, built in 1910 in Lot #3862 as the Herndon, a Plan #2418 28 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/26/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#610, built in 1912 in Lot #3951 as the Emlita, a Plan #2418 28 seat parlor-1DR for the NYC. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 6/25/41.

#611, built in 1910 in Lot #3862 as the Barclay, a Plan #2418 28 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/25/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#612, built in 1910 in Lot #3862 as the Aqua, a Plan #2418 28 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 6/27/41.

#613, built in 1910 in Lot #3862 as the Baird, a Plan #2418 28 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 6/30/41.

#614, built in 1910 in Lot #3862 as the Hollins, a Plan #2418 28 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 6/30/41.

#615, built in 1910 in Lot #3862 as the Glassmere, a Plan #2418 28 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 6/30/41.

#616, built in 1910 in Lot #3862 as the Angora, a Plan #2418 28 seat parlor-1DR for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 6/3/41.

#617, built in 1910 in Lot #3861 as the Baker, a Plan #2419 32 seat parlor for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 6/25/41.

#618, built in 1910 in Lot #3861 as the Curtin, a Plan #2419 32 seat parlor for the PRR. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 6/27/41.

#619, built in 1912 in Lot #4051 as the Romola, a Plan #2668 30 seat parlor-1DR for the LV, renamed Adorea in 4/18. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/24/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#620, built in 1916 in Lot #4389 as the Medfield, a Plan #2916 36 seat parlor for the Merchants Limited. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/20/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#621, built in 1916 in Lot #4389 as the Lonsdale, a Plan #2916 36 seat parlor for the Merchants Limited. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/24/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#622, built in 1916 in Lot #4389 as the Maywood, a Plan #2916 36 seat parlor for the Merchants Limited. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/26/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#623, built in 1916 in Lot #4389 as the Milldale, a Plan #2916 36 seat parlor for the Merchants Limited. Listed by Madden as sold to NYC on 6/23/41, listed by Wayner as (re)sold to C&O.

#624, built in 1916 in Lot #4389 as the Beckley, a Plan #2916 36 seat parlor for the Merchants Limited. Listed by Madden as sold to C&O on 6/25/41.

Note: for the cars which are included in the 1965 folio, the acquisition date is listed as August 1941; the sale of some of these cars to NYC is listed in Madden's transcription of the Pullman records, whereas Wayner lists these cars as sold directly to C&O. There are a number of cars so listed by Madden as sold to NYC in 1941, which according to Wayner, went not only to the C&O, but also to NP, RF&P, and CN/GTW.

Besides the #389 (ex-Franklin), do any of the other 49 rebuilt cars survive? Is the #395 (ex-Gilberton) still extant? Thanks in advance!

Sources:

1. "The Complete Roster of Heavyweight Pullman Cars" by Robert J. Wayner (Wayner Publications, 1985)

2. "Passenger Car Catalog: Pullman Operated Equipment 1912-1949" by William W. Kratville (Kratville Publications, 1968)

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. C&O 1965 passenger car diagram folio

Ted,
Thank you for posting that roster. Its interesting reading material, especially for a C&O fan like myself.

C&O Baggage Car #268 formerly at the Coopersville & Marne Railway in Michigan was SCRAPPED in early 2014. I believe this was rebuilt from a horse car as well.

/Andrew

You are correct. It was a horse car, then converted for auto transport. She was in BAD shape. The last nail in the coffin was the fact that somebody had stolen all the bearings. Nobody noticed them missing and the car was moved. Tore the axles and the journal boxes up bad. The only good thing was that about half the wheels were able to get re-used on new axles for one of the other passenger cars. There were some parts that were saved. I know that an entire coupler and draft gear was saved. There was only one on the car when it arrived.

Do you know if this was the horse express car that sat in Frankfort, MI for many years? Or where that car ended up?

I believe so.

/Andrew

I believe this car came to Coopersville from somewhere south of Grand Rapids. Maybe even Kalamazoo area. I believe it was part of a collection at a store or hobby shop or something. I will see if I can find out for sure.

#268 was formerly owned by Glenn Van Winkle, who at the time was owner of Alexander Scale Models. He owned the baggage car since at least the mid-1970s.

His collection was stored adjacent to the small building housing the ASM manufacturing facility, at the end of the former PM/C&O Reeds Lake Branch, at Cottage Grove Street and Kalamazoo Avenue in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

in addition to #268, equipment on the site over the years included an ex-GTW/ex-DW&P wooden caboose painted as GTW's bicentennial caboose #76002 (former DW&P #76938), C&O wooden caboose #90630, at least one wooden B&O caboose, GTW wooden caboose #77056, and a GTW Betterment coach.

When CSX removed the Reeds Lake Branch in the mid-1990s, most of the Van Winkle collection, except for the three DW&P/GTW, B&O and GTW cabooses, was moved off of the property. For many years it was stored on a siding at a grocery warehouse in Walker, a suburb on the northwest side of Grand Rapids. Much of this collection ended up on the Coopersville and Marne, about a dozen miles west, in the early 2000s.

Caboose #90630 became part of the display with Virginia Central/Augusta RR 2-6-0 #300 along US-131 at the Grooters warehouse in Grand Rapids. Both #300 and the caboose have since been moved to the Coopersville and Marne.

I remember this car stored on the Toledo Lake Erie and Western in the early 1980's. I am sure it was moved off of the TLE&W by 1987.

Does anyone know what Greenfield Village used the car for?