Has the Trail Movement Gone Around the Bend?

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:30 pm

If the administrators decide this belongs in Railfanning, I won't argue with them--I admit I had questions about placing it here myself--but in view of the fights going on between heritage railroaders and the trail people, I think this needs to be addressed.

Below is the evidence for what I think is the case:

https://secure2.convio.net/rtt/site/Adv ... ion&id=491

http://support.railstotrails.org/site/D ... docID=1781

A bit of background for those who might not have seen this before: The All Aboard Florida mentioned is a new passenger subsidiary of the Florida East Coast Railway. The road's current management thinks the time is right to get back into private, for profit passenger service.

Now one can question whether that is a wise move (and some people we would call NIMBYs are doing just that with gusto), but there is no question that this is a PRIVATELY OWNED railroad that pays taxes on that right of way. We don't have any questions here about a publicly owned right of way that,as some trail types would allege, may or may not be in use to its highest purpose, or may cost too much as a railroad, or on which a heritage railroad may or may not have fulfilled its contractual terms.

In short, we have some serious over-reach issues here--and if the trail crowd wants to take on an FEC, then none of us should consider ourselves really safe.

At least that's how I see things.

For reference--the NIMBYs:

https://www.facebook.com/floridanotallaboard?fref=ts

https://www.facebook.com/citizensagains ... fl?fref=ts

Paul-NC · **Joined:** Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:26 am **Posts:** 60

Here you have from "the" expert on Rail Trails that Rails WITH Trails are safe and to be encouraged even with the fastest trains.

That information could be very useful for those who are fighting to preserve rail service along with a proposed trail

daylight4449 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:25 pm

I'd argue that they have... In Florida, most certainly. Last I checked, you can't dictate how someone does business on their property... But I've heard rumors that the group up in the Adirondacks was eyeing the Mohawk, Adirondack and Northern for replacement with a trail. At least that's what some of the comments in their social media sphere would lead me to believe. Unless I missed something, they're running on private trackage... Let's just be honest. The lot of these people are a bunch of wackos.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:36 pm

Problem:

As near as I can tell, this is simply an activist movement that thinks that local bike trail/pathway provision be part of an overall transportation network developed with the FEC trackage.

Nowhere can I find any indication that they want the trails on top of, or in place of, the FEC rail corridors.

There's a massive difference between bike routes being part of an integrated (with LOTS of rail) transit plan and rallying to rip out the (unused?) rails to lay a trail.

I hate to say this, but you appear to be slowly descending to the same "single-issue obsessed" caricature that you portray the anti-rail extremists to be. If an outsider came here and looked at the multitude of posts of yours fixated around one project several states away, he or she might come away with an equally unflattering image of your "zealotry."

J3a-614 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:47 am

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

Problem:

As near as I can tell, this is simply an activist movement that thinks that local bike trail/pathway provision be part of an overall transportation network developed with the FEC trackage.

Nowhere can I find any indication that they want the trails on top of, or in place of, the FEC rail corridors.

There's a massive difference between bike routes being part of an integrated (with LOTS of rail) transit plan and rallying to rip out the (unused?) rails to lay a trail.

True, quite true, but it's also placing political pressure on a private property owner with more than average liability concerns (although, as with excursions, some would argue the liability concerns are overstated, at least compared with some other things such as certain hazardous material shipments).

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

I hate to say this, but you appear to be slowly descending to the same "single-issue obsessed" caricature that you portray the anti-rail extremists to be. If an outsider came here and looked at the multitude of posts of yours fixated around one project several states away, he or she might come away with an equally unflattering image of your "zealotry."

Oh, I wouldn't say that. I would have too far to go to catch up; our opposition has too much of a head start!

P.S.: Please don't take what some might interpret as a flippant reply too seriously. I for one still remember and appreciate what you did for some coach parts in New Oxford a couple of years ago--and the other things you still do.

rcw7585 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:25 am **Posts:** 85

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

I hate to say this, but you appear to be slowly descending to the same "single-issue obsessed" caricature that you portray the anti-rail extremists to be.

Perhaps private property rights are worthy of someone being "single-issue obsessed" about? This is not really a daisypicker, peace and rainbows, unicorns and wet puppydog kisses trail they want... what these activists truly want is to legally lay claim to someone else's private property.

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

This came across my wire today

Quote:

New report shows South Shore commuters saving significant amount

According to a new report from the Northern Indiana Commuter Train District (NICTD), those who live in Northern Indiana and commute to Chicago via the South Shore railroad can realize monthly savings of up to 86% versus driving to work.
NICTD says a cost analysis looked at monthly train costs originating from South Bend, Michigan City, Dune Park, Gary and East Chicago stations to downtown Chicago versus driving from those cities. According to the report, monthly train fare and parking at those stations can save commuters up to 86% in total costs when compared to driving and factors like gas, oil, vehicle maintenance, insurance and depreciation. In a release from NICTD, they say the analysis for driving is based on the IRS's current reimbursable mileage allowance of $0.575 per mile multiplied by 21 commuting days.
According to the release, "the monthly train cost plus parking for commuting from the South Bend station to downtown Chicago is $385.75, compared with monthly driving costs of $2,674 when factoring in consumables totaling $616 and tolls/parking of $500 (downtown Chicago parking is approximately $225 per month). On a daily costs basis, taking the South Shore train is $18.37 versus $53.15 for daily driving costs, a savings of 86."
NICTD Marketing Director John Parsons says the cost savings analysis shows how valuable the South Shore is to commuters.
“Not only are commuters saving on their transportation costs versus driving, they’re greatly reducing the wear-and-tear on their automobiles every month and can enjoy a much more relaxing commute than fighting rush hour traffic,” he said. RAILChicago.netMore Than Chicago Railroading

a mass transit bike trail...yer jokin me, go to Korea or Singapore where bikes rule the roads...well they can't afford expensive cars where noted...

Theres an abandoned line here they've made into a trail, lots of asphalt laid down, they spent some millions doing this? and they cant get a rail line going...I'm stumped, if it runs again somehow you'll be yanking up a lot of asphalt.
I may have to check this line out however because there was a 3 level bridge way of 3 different lines near Niles Michigan, there's a pic in one of my CERA books I think of it.

Turnaround/comearound, but you have to figure out the economics to make it work for a privatised system.

Tim Moriarty · **Joined:** Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:25 pm **Posts:** 373

RE: "go to Korea or Singapore where bikes rule the roads...well they can't afford expensive cars where noted..."

I go to Korea for a few weeks every couple of years and was just there again in April and May of this year. The only places I saw bikes were on recreational bike trails, such as the paved route running alongside the south bank of the Han River in Seoul. The streets were filled, not with bikes, but with clean, modern and well-maintained cars. There are so many cars, in fact, that massive traffic jams are a daily fact of life. If not for the very extensive Seoul Metro, auto traffic jams would be even worse.