In a lower post, someone mentioned that the Germans destroyed the "Versailles Treaty Car." That is incorrect. When France Fell in May of 1940 (and fall fast they did) the Germans orded that the car be taken out of a museum and sent to the very spot where the Germans had signed the armistace in 1918, so the French could be humiliated to surrender in the same car. The Germans then took the car back to Germany and put it in a museum in Berlin. Sometime later (like 1943 or 1944) it was destroyed during an Allied bombing raid. Had it not been destroyed, I bet the French would have drug it out and had the Germans surrender in it again! Oh, TJ, The Treaty of Versailles technically wasn't signed in the car, just the Armistace that went into effect on 11/11/1918. The Versailles Treaty was signed at Versailles. (sorry, can't help it, history grad student). By the way, the French replicated the car, and it is on display at a museum in France. I can't remember where, but I did see it on their webpage.

david.wilkins@bardstown.com

> Oh, TJ, The Treaty of Versailles
> technically wasn't signed in the car, just
> the Armistace that went into effect on
> 11/11/1918. The Versailles Treaty was signed
> at Versailles. (sorry, can't help it,
> history grad student).

Yeah, but who's buried in Grant's Tomb?

Ahead of the Torch
trains@robertjohndavis.com

> Yeah, but who's buried in Grant's Tomb?

I had a High School civics teacher who loved trivia, this was an extra credit question on the Final.

Grant AND his wife!


djdewey@cncnet.com

Incidently, Grant died within sight of my present house, at his "cottage" atop Mt. McGregor, which has been splendidly preserved. His body was brought down to Saratoga on the narrow gauge line and transferred to the D&H at the old downtown station where the Price Chopper supermarket stands today.

> I had a High School civics teacher who loved
> trivia, this was an extra credit question on
> the Final.

> Grant AND his wife!


Grant cottage
ryarger@rypn.org

Oh, yeah? Well NJ's got a dead Prez, too, man! Yeah!


Garfield was shot in Washington Union Station. The PRR whisked the slain President to his seashore cottage in Elberon, NJ (which was in sight of where I used to live).

Probelm was, the joint PRR/CNJ New York & Long BRanch depot was over a mile from Garfield's house and his doctor said putting Garfield in a horse buggy would be detrimental to the dying man's health.

So, while the train sped to the shore, a track gang laid a section track from the Elberon depot to Garfield's front door.

When the temporary spur was pulled up, some of the ties were used to build a small out building at Garfiled's church on Ocean Avenue.

The out building still stands today even though the Elberon depot and Garfield's house are long gone.

Rob Davis

> Incidently, Grant died within sight of my
> present house, at his "cottage"
> atop Mt. McGregor, which has been splendidly
> preserved. His body was brought down to
> Saratoga on the narrow gauge line and
> transferred to the D&H at the old
> downtown station where the Price Chopper
> supermarket stands today.


Ahead of the Torch
trains@robertjohndavis.com

Mr. Garfield was actually shot in the Baltimore and Potomac Station (PRR) account Union Station was not yet built in 1881.

The asassination did lead to Union Station having a Presidential entrance and waiting room at the East end of the building (that's the end over the Thru Tracks South.) The Presidential waiting room was later a USO and with the "Malling" of the building it became a restaurant.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

I'm fairly sure that Garfield was not shot in what is today's Washington Union Station, since it was not built until 1907. Photos from the late 1800's show trains crossing the West Front of the U. S. Capitol, and I believe that either the B&O or Pennsy or predecessor roads had stations near what is today the National Mall, and that Garfield was shot in one of those stations. When Union Station was built, a Presidential/VIP waiting room was part of the East Wing (today the part with the fancy restaurant, the current tenant escapes me) so that future assassinations would not happen the same way. Paul

> Oh, yeah? Well NJ's got a dead Prez, too,
> man! Yeah!
> :-)

> Garfield was shot in Washington Union
> Station. The PRR whisked the slain President
> to his seashore cottage in Elberon, NJ
> (which was in sight of where I used to
> live).

> Probelm was, the joint PRR/CNJ New York
> & Long BRanch depot was over a mile from
> Garfield's house and his doctor said putting
> Garfield in a horse buggy would be
> detrimental to the dying man's health.

> So, while the train sped to the shore, a
> track gang laid a section track from the
> Elberon depot to Garfield's front door.

> When the temporary spur was pulled up, some
> of the ties were used to build a small out
> building at Garfiled's church on Ocean
> Avenue.

> The out building still stands today even
> though the Elberon depot and Garfield's
> house are long gone.

> Rob Davis


pww57@hotmail.com

In the back. >:-)

Actually, it was at Washington's Baltimore & Potomac station, which stood at what is now 6th and Constitution NW, approximately where the present-day National Gallery of Art now stands.

lner4472@bcpl.net

If you have time the next time you are in Cleveland be sure and visit Garfields Tomb in Lake View Cemetery. You can also visit the Wade Chapel ..interior by Tiffany ...as well as some beautiful landscape work.


lamontdc@adelphia.net

Thanks for the correction.

I'm just glad they got Garfield and not Odie.


Rob

> In the back. >:-)

> Actually, it was at Washington's Baltimore
> & Potomac station, which stood at what
> is now 6th and Constitution NW,
> approximately where the present-day National
> Gallery of Art now stands.


Ahead of the Torch
trains@robertjohndavis.com

Blown away by another History grad student. Darn.
Oh well, can be the expert on everything ;-) Thanks for straightening that out.

TJ

> In a lower post, someone mentioned that the
> Germans destroyed the "Versailles
> Treaty Car." That is incorrect. When
> France Fell in May of 1940 (and fall fast
> they did) the Germans orded that the car be
> taken out of a museum and sent to the very
> spot where the Germans had signed the
> armistace in 1918, so the French could be
> humiliated to surrender in the same car. The
> Germans then took the car back to Germany
> and put it in a museum in Berlin. Sometime
> later (like 1943 or 1944) it was destroyed
> during an Allied bombing raid. Had it not
> been destroyed, I bet the French would have
> drug it out and had the Germans surrender in
> it again! Oh, TJ, The Treaty of Versailles
> technically wasn't signed in the car, just
> the Armistace that went into effect on
> 11/11/1918. The Versailles Treaty was signed
> at Versailles. (sorry, can't help it,
> history grad student). By the way, the
> French replicated the car, and it is on
> display at a museum in France. I can't
> remember where, but I did see it on their
> webpage.


Port Huron Museum

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

David-

If they replicated it, I take it there were plans for these cars somewhere still extant? The few pictures that I have seen of the original car
indicate a beautiful piece of work. Any indication if any of the original car still exists or survived the Allied bombing?

TJG

> In a lower post, someone mentioned that the
> Germans destroyed the "Versailles
> Treaty Car." That is incorrect. When
> France Fell in May of 1940 (and fall fast
> they did) the Germans orded that the car be
> taken out of a museum and sent to the very
> spot where the Germans had signed the
> armistace in 1918, so the French could be
> humiliated to surrender in the same car. The
> Germans then took the car back to Germany
> and put it in a museum in Berlin. Sometime
> later (like 1943 or 1944) it was destroyed
> during an Allied bombing raid. Had it not
> been destroyed, I bet the French would have
> drug it out and had the Germans surrender in
> it again! Oh, TJ, The Treaty of Versailles
> technically wasn't signed in the car, just
> the Armistace that went into effect on
> 11/11/1918. The Versailles Treaty was signed
> at Versailles. (sorry, can't help it,
> history grad student). By the way, the
> French replicated the car, and it is on
> display at a museum in France. I can't
> remember where, but I did see it on their
> webpage.


Port Huron Museum

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org