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| Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auctioned https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38580 |
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| Author: | ChicagoGreatWestern [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auctioned |
Quote: It’s not only automobiles that will be offered at Bonhams’ “Preserving the Automobile” auction October 5 at the Simeone Foundation Automotive Museum in Philadelphia. Several historic railway locomotives that have spent the past 80 years at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago also will be part of the auction. https://news.classiccars.com/historic-rail-locomotives-added-preservation-auction-simeone http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22793/?department=MOT-CAR Ryan Heath Minneapolis, MN |
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| Author: | 70000 [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auction |
So, why on earth would they want to sell a genuine 1835 British built steam loco off? I would have thought that having an artifact of such age and provinence would have made it a key item in their collection. Does it just boil down to wanting the money, or are they reveiwing their collection in line with any changes in their collecting policy? |
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| Author: | Dennis Storzek [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auction |
Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry has never had a coherent railroad technology display. It used to be the big train layout sponsored by the Santa Fe, with some "stuff" scattered around, and large pieces outside. Over the last ten or twenty years they've rationalized the collection; bringing NYC&HR 999 inside, bringing the Pioneer Zephyr inside and building an extensive display around it, and building a new smaller layout sponsored by BNSF that tells a better story of moving goods across the nation. Meanwhile, the what's left doesn't really tell a story; there's too many gaps. The big Santa Fe Northern was de-accessioned to IRM; this is some of the rest of the "stuff" that was shoved up against the walls and more or less forgotten. |
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| Author: | softwerkslex [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auction |
Pretty disappointing. No attempt to circulate these items to other museums? Of the rail items, three are replicas. I am unclear about the locomotive cab. Replica or salvage from a scrapped engine? But the "Mississippi" is a real artifact. For example, it would be a candidate for the Kennesaw museum. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auction |
This arouses in me mixed emotions--like you watching the leader of North Korea drive your new car off the edge of the Grand Canyon. On the one hand, most of these are replicas--historic replicas in their own right by now, but replicas. And I can see and make arguments both ways for the "Mississippi"--one of the oldest engines in existence, but not American, didn't operate in the area, doesn't fit mission statement any more, etc. But, yeah, apparently any idiot with enough money can go in and buy an actual PRR steam cab or the York or Mississippi, and hide it from the rest of us forever. On the other hand, that "idiot" could be J.J. Jacobson and his Age of Steam Museum, or an "angel" who will turn around and say "I will give this loco/sell it for $1 to the rail museum that gives me the most coherent preservation proposal for it and proves itself stable and secure". And, yes--why were these not offered to other museums first? The loco cab would be wonderful for Altoona, Strasburg, Dennison, Dayton, or any other museum. |
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| Author: | M Secco [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auction |
Boy I'm upset, looking at the Mississippi and the Rocket as a child sparked my interest in railroading. I don't want them to leave their climate controlled environment and go to a well meaning railway museum or private collector to become a deteriorating piece of junk. I'm an active member of a large railway museum that makes covering its collection a high priority. That said, I firmly believe the Mississippi will never ever have the thousands of adults and children looking at and touching her at my museum as they now do at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago. Leave them be. |
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| Author: | rock island lines [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auction |
For reference, here are results of a previous Bonham's auction for the Ralph Cox Jr. estate. Sale price includes premium. 1906 HAMMOND SAN FRANCISCO CALIFORNIA STREET CABLE CAR Sold for $87,500 http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22174/lot/206/ J.G. BRILL & COMPANY DT-9 WINDOW STREETCAR, C.1918 Sold for $52,500 http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22174/lot/207/ 1920 BALDWIN 2-6-2 LOCOMOTIVE (Withdrawn from auction) http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22174/lot/226/ [Edited to add link to steam locomotive.] |
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| Author: | JR May [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auction |
Just a quick note. The Bonhams catalog for the Cox auction contained several items that were pulled at the last minute. The SS&S #26 for example was pulled after NJMT made a deal directly with the family which I believe included a buyers fee. So, just because it appears in the catalog, that does not mean there are some deals being worked on behind the scenes. If a group has an interest, then get on the phone quickly and begin those negotiations now with the owners. |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auction |
The locomotive cab is real, as is the backhead. While designated as a K4s, it is believe to actually be from an unknown G5s. Last I saw it, it was in beautiful condition. The antique locomotives are a bit perplexing. There must be logical places for them to be transferred. These items may bring in necessary cash for other, equally critical displays or restorations. I'm sure they aren't being removed without critical thinking aforethought. |
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| Author: | Don C. [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auction |
As some local wag suggested......making room for the new iPhone display..... Don C. |
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| Author: | Frisco1522 [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auction |
Well, Illinois is broke. Can't even pay larger lottery tickets. |
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| Author: | robertjohndavis [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auction |
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: And I can see and make arguments both ways for the "Mississippi"--one of the oldest engines in existence, but not American I wouldn't be surprised if someone looked at Mississippi and said she was "foreign" and totally disregarded that most early locomotives in the USA were constructed in Britain. That's the world we live in. I would bet the NRM would find space for her. Rob |
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| Author: | tomgears [ Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auction |
This is irresponsible and reckless. I am sending real letters to the museum leadership: Museum of Science and Industry Office of the Chairman John A. Canning, Jr 5700 S. Lake Shore Drive Chicago, IL 60637-2093 Museum of Science and Industry Vice President, Exhibits and Collections Kurt E. Haunfelner 5700 S. Lake Shore Drive Chicago, IL 60637-2093 I will also be sending letter to the accreditation associations: American Alliance of Museums 1575 Eye Street NW Suite 400 Washington DC 20005 Association of Science-Technology Centers 818 Connecticut Avenue, NW 7th Floor Washington, DC 20006-2734 |
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| Author: | Dougvv [ Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auction |
Hi, In sort of a parallel museum happenstance, Kennesaw, GA is well remembered as Big Shanty from the Civil War episode of Andrews Raiders stealing the General (c1963). The General is on displayed in a converted (and historic) Cotton Gin or Grist Mill (I do not recall exactly). With but one attraction, I think it has been hard to draw visitors. In the 1990's, the Glover Machine Works moved from Marietta to Albany Georgia. The collection from about 1900-1920 of plans, photos, patterns, and other Glover items that related to locomotive manufacturing af about 200 steam locomotives were not to be moved to Albany and offered to a muddy history of Marietta, Kennesaw, and maybe the State of Georgia. This amazing collection included (I think) belt driven machinery. This Glover collection eventionally ended up in the General's Mill/Museum. With three locomotives still in the Glover works in the 1990s, a 36" 2-6-0 ended up fully restored and on display in an open air pavillion in a parking lot in Marietta. The two incomplete (or maybe one incomplete and one complete) narrow gauge 0-4-0ts were moved to Kennesaw for display. As a side item the narrow gauge 0-4-0t's were not the same gauge. Now this Museum is trying to offer both Civil War history and turn of the 20th Century manufacturing technology with only a vague link of railroad locomotives. If they tried to have a less disjointed history, they might need to deaccessed the General or the Glover collection. Not saying it will or should happen. Just some thoughts for consideration. Doug vV |
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| Author: | 70000 [ Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Museum of Science and Industry Locomotives to be Auction |
robertjohndavis wrote: Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: And I can see and make arguments both ways for the "Mississippi"--one of the oldest engines in existence, but not American I wouldn't be surprised if someone looked at Mississippi and said she was "foreign" and totally disregarded that most early locomotives in the USA were constructed in Britain. That's the world we live in. Rob Having a dig around for info, it appears that the Braithwaite & Ericsson concern built "at least 14" locos for the US market in the years 1833-39, though the company was known as Braithwaite, Milner & Co after 1836. Their previous designs for the UK domestic market, including "Novelty" of Rainhill Trials fame, were not particularly successful. Ericsson moved to the US in 1839 where he was later responsible for the USS Monitor. Given the locomotives links to the very earliest developments of railways and one of the first ironclad warships, I would have thought it deserved a place in a "Museum of Science & Industry" Wonder how many Aviation museums would want to get rid of an original example of a Wright Flyer?? |
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