I was surfing around Facebook this evening and went and looked at the PRR T1 Trust Facebook page. They have been documenting the pattern development for the Box Pok (sp?) wheels. It is pretty amazing the engineering that went into these things. If people think they aren't for real, this should convince them. Worth seeing how you would make these huge wheels with today's tech.

Their facebook page is https://www.facebook.com/t1locomotive (I am not sure if you need an account or not to see it.)

I'll have to say that my opinion of the T1 Trust has changed. These guys are serious and my skepticism is being replaced by enthusiasm.

This exercise also shows how modern technology has bridged the gap left by the disappearance of master patternmakers. I'm a bit surprised that the pattern shop they are using is here in Youngstown. Guess where I'm going the next time I need a pattern made.

This is indeed something. I sent them a note suggesting they invest in learning the art of pattern making instead of paying for patterns. They are going to need so many patterns. Why not learn how to make them and preserve the craft. They told me the foundry would not permit "bring your own" patterns which is not true. I'm not saying my idea is the best but they gave me the blow off so they must not need my money.

Tom, did you contact the foundry they are using to see if you can bring your own patterns? I am being serious. It seems these guys are doing everything they can. If they could make their own patterns, I think they would.

I would think foundries would be very particular about what pattern shops they work with. Maybe the foundry they are using only uses the Youngstown foundry? Maybe they need to find another foundry?

Heck, we use to haul complete molds down to Beaver Valley Alloy to be poured when I was in the foundry business.

Once a relationship with the foundry is established and it is shown that you can make patterns to their specs., things get a bit easier to get done.

By this time next year we will have the capacity of pouring up to 7,000 lb. grey and ductile iron castings at Carrie Furnaces. We will also have nonferrous capacity. We poured a complete set of grates for J&L 58 at Carrie a couple of weeks ago.

The website of the foundry they are using says you can provide patterns. Maybe the right answer is they plan on having enough money to not have to think about things like making a lot of patterns and maybe they also have no interest in preserving the art of pattern making and just want to build the locomotive which, I suppose, are bother good plans. Maybe they just thought my suggesting was a dumb idea and maybe I'm wrong and this is the only pattern they will need.

I would be getting everyone in the group learning how to do as many of the required tasks. I'm following Hot Metal's work and that seems to be the plan with his museum. It seems like a good one.

I've been finding it difficult to find old school patternmakers and pattern shops. There are a few left out there, but the demand for foundry patterns isn't what it used to be. With the new CNC and rapid prototyping technologies I expect that the old school patternmaker will someday become extinct.

I'm willing to try anything but I just don't get along with wood. My house is full of examples of why Rick should not be allowed anywhere near woodworking tools! But one of our team is proficient with Solidworks, so my lack of skills in that area won't hold us back from making new patterns as the need arises.

The T1 Trust is showing that the new technologies can make what was unattainable attainable. With the number of patterns that they need for the T1, in the long run it might be worthwhile to lease a CNC router and make all of their own patterns after all of the Solidworks files are created.

Might I suggest that if one wants to learn pattern making, the pattern for a full size Boxpok driver (pronounced "box spoke") is not the place to start? The learning curve typically results in a number of failures before success... and failed pours of this item are going to be costly. You do realize that this is only 1/4 the pattern work for this driver... It will require both cope and drag patterns, plus two core boxes, since the driver casting is hollow. They can learn pattern making on patterns for flag brackets or pipe supports.

Even if an organization finds an old-school pattern maker willing to work for a pittance, it can still be much faster and cheaper to use a CNC router. Depending on the pattern maker, it can be more accurate as well, reducing the amount of "meat" that needs to be added for finish machining.

They would be smart to search for companies that own CNC routers of appropriate sizes, that might be willing to machine patterns when their routers are otherwise unoccupied.

Perhaps a manufacturer of CNC routers might be willing to assist, possibly donating a certain amount of machine time or a free lease for a year, etc. This, of course, would rely on having qualified volunteers to run the machines and finish the patterns. They seem to have some good engineering volunteers already.

It's great to see progress on this ambitious new build!

Steve Hunter

Dennis -

Thanks for the explanation of how to pronounce this. I always figured is was "box pock" or "box poke". Goes to show you what I know! Thanks for straightening me out. Never to late to learn I guess.


Les

Les,

Boxpok was a made-up tradename that was a word play on the fact that the spokes are indeed hollow box sections.

I think what you will find is that most those "old-school" pattern makers are already using CNC routers, and have been for years. The pattern in the photo is CNC work; it's practically one piece, no wax fillets, and the fillets blast right through knots that would give a hand carver fits.

What you get when you go to an old-school pattern shop is knowledge, which is worth a lot more than the machinery.

Yes, Dennis, they are... I was thinking more of a pre-CNC retiree working cheap to bump up his pension rather than a current pattern maker.

CNC tools don't replace experience, but in the hands of an experienced worker they can drastically increase productivity and accuracy.

Steve Hunter

For the casual passer by, the wheel center is 72 inches in diameter or there abouts. Once the tire goes on the wheel will be 80 inches. If you live in a standard home, that is as tall as your doors. I was able to give my little ones an idea just how big the wheel is using that comparison.

As for the project, my skepticism has eroded significantly given how quickly the group has gotten to this point. The official project popped up about the time I registered here. In that short time they're on the verge of pouring drivers.

To quote George Costanza, "Haven't (they) heard of shrinkage?"

I hope that's been figured in. This whole deal would be so much easier if Pennsy had preserved one.