I have thinking about steam overhauls in general. I know steam overhauls can take 3-5 years even decades to complete. Now I'm thinking like a businessman My dad and I went the latest MRSP open house in Cleveland OH. and I saw the 2100 and 4070 there. I know that they want to have the 4070 operational by 2018 now judging by it's age I don't think they will make it. I think 4070 needs a brand new boiler to do so. The cost is a concern for any group. Now I know you all will attack me on this but I think maybe it would be best to have the locomotive and the CMO to be sent to China and have it fully rebuilt as quickly as possible. You will have the original designs and have all the equipment and skilled labor all under one roof. The Chinese have built it's last steamer in 1999 so they still have all the tools and equipment also knowledge to build a new one. Have several members of the group to supervise the work and you could have a brand new hundred year American locomotive with a brand new boiler ready for service in two to three years.

I know you would rather have a American Built locomotive to restored in America because of national pride and I fully understand I rather have that to but you have to run it like a business to be successful. For any group what is more important work on a locomotive which could take decades and several members may pass on during the progress and end up going nowhere or run it like business and outsource the restoration to different countries and get it back on the road asap.

your thoughts again I'm thinking as businessman that's all

As a businessman, how are you going to pay for all this???

Mike Tillger

I never said I was a businessman I was saying it's an option that's all. I'm sorry that I said anything about this it's just an idea and a option that's all. I don't know where the money is going to come from it's just an idea and a option see I'm what saying.

China has rebuilt some of their retired steam locomotives to US standards, but the last was over a decade ago. It's not a given that the same people, tools and patterns would still be available. Eastern Europe is another possibility, and India is working to gather and preserve their remaining steam heritage so perhaps there's an opportunity there as well. A new boiler was built in Canada within the past 15 years for a nice medium sized locomotive. You can order a new 4-4-0 right now in the USA...........

It can be built here, but as was previously stated, it will cost money no matter where you have it done, and besides, it isn't yours to control. MRSP has no doubt been considering and will still consider their options and make the best decisions for themselves.

If the work is done at home, you develop the skilled workforce at home. If you use the last guys in China who know how to rebuild steam, then they retire, where does that leave you?

It's better to take a little longer, strengthen the skills base and develop the shop facilities and tool inventory at home- and bring in young guys who will be there the next time your locomotive needs heavy repair. Build for the future, don't run away from the issue.

This is a very different thing than importing a locomotive from China, and then doing what it takes to maintain it for the long haul while it's still "new".

Steve Hunter

What makes you think No. 4070 needs a new boiler? There are any number of locomotives older than it still running. Also, there are a number of contractors and shops that can perform just about any major repairs necessary to a boiler, not to mention the rest of the locomotive. All it takes is money.

From my August visit, 4070 needed firebox work and sheet metal replacement on thinned areas on the smokebox...as well as normal rebuild work that a 1472 requires. They had UST grids on the boiler and were prepared for a lot of boiler work but not a replacement. The replaced areas were on the smokebox, not on the pressure vessel itself. Have things changed since then?

4070 does NOT need a new boiler!! And MRPS is absolutely not crazy enough to send the locomotive out of the country much less to China for any reason. It would probably cost more to move the locomotive to the Port of Cleveland and load it onto the deck of an ocean going vessel than the cost needed for a complete rebuild in our own shop. MRPS is using help from well known steam locomotive experts, and in the last year many other steam guys have stopped by to check in with us. No one has even suggested that 4070 needs a new boiler. Smoke box repairs are in progress, fire box repairs have been identified, we are also checking thickness of the tender sheets because there is a lot of corrosion. If 4070 did need a new boiler REPEAT IT DOES NOT! we would probably put her back together cosmetically and stuff and mount her in front of the roundhouse. MRPS is using the same professional help that American Steam and Fort Wayne are using so with 765 in service right now that help is stretched thin, but we continue to do what we can.

After I get the 58 done, I've been seriously considering putting some time in on the 4070. Its a locomotive that is close to home and needs some attention. Its also the first one I've ever seen in steam.

I'M SORRY I didn't just meant the 4070 i meant in general I just use the 4070 as an example that's all. It also doesn't have to be China it's an example. I suggested China because they built their last new one in 1999 and also the knowledge is there to. Restoring it there was the short run to teach new people how to do the work. For better answer why not bring experts from China or any other experts around the world to come America for the knowledge they might know something that we don't know. If a locomotive needs a new boiler you might want to search around for the best bid from anywhere around the world. How's this as a better answer

1999 was a long time ago. China and China's railways are very different now. What makes you think those "skills" even exist 16 years later?

Boilers built in other countries: I think some Australians and Brits might have some interesting commentary about that subject; they do have some very recent experience with that scenario.

It's not a matter of "where", it (steam loco restoration, boiler and/or the rest of it) is a matter of "how much" and, "where's the money coming from?, and "why restore an engine anyway?" There are NO shortcuts.

Howard P.

3801s boiler for the second time? Didn't do too well on the British boiler either if I recall.

I had a discussion with someone (and who, I honestly forget) concerning the same thing at about the time the last OJ's were being built... namely, why not contract brand new boilers to fit some North American engines. The answer was (and I considered it an informed opinion) that the Chinese built a standard product to a standard plan, and were already in the process of closing down their production. They could build the boiler THEY wanted to build rather cheaply by US standards, but not the boiler YOU wanted... that would require new engineering, tooling, and fixturing that they were not particularly inclined to invest in... especially since according to government edict old fashion steam was officially dead.

It seems the experiences with several boilers built in the former East Germany bear out the wisdom of this position.