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Most modern 4-4-0's ?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38638		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Most modern 4-4-0's ?
I'm asking this here as others have a wider encyclopedic knowledge of steam than do I. Which railroads had the most modern 4-4-0 Americans in service? I'm talking about both new builds and older rebuilds, taking the wheel arrangement away from the old "wild west" depiction.
Author:  elueck [ Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most modern 4-4-0's ?
My wild guess as far as the largest number of fairly modern 4-4-0's would be the T&NO lines of the SP. I don't know how many that they had or anything like that but they ran on the branch lines all over Texas and Louisiana, right up until the end of steam. Most of them had been rebuilt at least once and modernized.

Some of the last 4-4-0's built for US service were those built for the Chicago and Illinois Midland, the Bonhomie and Hattiesburg Southern, and the Red River and Gulf (the latter two being lumber railroads in Mississippi and Louisiana, respectively.)

One of the T&NO engines and the RR&G engine went via Paulson Spence, to the Stone Mountain RR, and now the SP engine is in Knoxville, TN and the RR&G engine is in Duluth, GA
Author:  Brian Norden [ Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most modern 4-4-0's ?
The Northwestern Pacific (then owned by the SP and the Santa FE) bought four 4-4-0s in 1914 from ALCO. At the same time the NWP acquired eight 4-6-0s from ALCO and the two groups were very similar in appearance and design.

Both groups were used for passenger service and had "Vanderbilt" tenders with diaphragm buffer plates on the rear.

An additional note:
I think the last 4-4-0s built in the USA were a couple built in 1948 by BLW for the 3-foot gauge operation in the Mexican Yucatan.
Author:  J3a-614 [ Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most modern 4-4-0's ?
Well, technically the most modern 4-4-0 is also the newest steam locomotive of any kind in America now, and that is Northern Central (Steam Into History) No. 17, a replica delivered in May of 2013:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_int ... er_Jct.JPG

The Delaware, Lackawanna & Western modernized some 4-4-0s to the extent of some rather interesting streamlining treatments which were also applied to at least one 4-6-0, a 4-6-2, and at least partially a 4-6-4.

http://www.antiquesnavigator.com/d-4662 ... 0-988.html

One of the biggest, and a contender for the ugliest, would be Reading's D-11 class of 1914:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/pr419s.jpg
Author:  Dougvv [ Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most modern 4-4-0's ?
Hi,

I know the PRR had some of the most advanced designs. Their 4-6-2s (K4s) and 4-4-2s (E6s?) were built and advanced when all other railroads had advanced to more moderen and larger designs. I am not sure how advanced their 4-4-0s were. Anyone know?

Doug vV
Author:  Dave [ Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most modern 4-4-0's ?
Strasburg ran a PRR D16sb a couple decades ago, and would have some worthwhile opinions.
Author:  Overmod [ Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most modern 4-4-0's ?
Hands down, the most modern 4-4-0 was the British 'Schools' class, of whichSteamtown had a representative example (Repton) until it was "repatriated" back to its homeland.

It is unlikely that anything of that sophistication would be built in the United States as other than a wide-firebox engine (with much higher peak horsepower) -- in other words, it would have been an Atlantic like the MILW A or PRR E8, or even a Jubilee.
Author:  Frisco1522 [ Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most modern 4-4-0's ?
My vote would go to the Frisco's six 182-187 4-4-0s which were totally rebuilt in the late '20s to take over trains that were being handled by Gas-Electrics.
They had front end throttles, syphon, lightweight Walschaerts valve gear, converted to oil and sporting a Coffin FWH in the smokebox. The water pump is under the cab on the fireman's side.
These little engines were around to the very last of steam on the Frisco and were quite a sight with their gold lettering and Doric striping and nickle cylinder head covers.

Attachments:
187 Coffinr.jpg
187 Coffinr.jpg [ 233.83 KiB | Viewed 12390 times ]
Author:  Dave Stephenson [ Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most modern 4-4-0's ?
I believe you'll find that C&IM's 4-4-0's (mentioned above) were the most modern. They had piston valves, were built around 1927, and had Walschaerts valve gear
Author:  mjanssen [ Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most modern 4-4-0's ?
That's a really neat Frisco locomotive!
Author:  mktjames [ Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most modern 4-4-0's ?
The MKT. rebuilt several of their 1890 4-4-0 in 1923. They steamed till in the 1950's with # 311 running itself to the St. Louis museum were it is preserved today. mktjames
Author:  Les Beckman [ Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most modern 4-4-0's ?
mktjames wrote:
The MKT. rebuilt several of their 1890 4-4-0 in 1923. They steamed till in the 1950's with # 311 running itself to the St. Louis museum were it is preserved today. mktjames


James -

Part of that rebuilding of these old 4-4-0's at the Katy's Parson Shops included new boilers. Although the Frisco's rebuilt American's were certainly good looking locomotives, I think that the Katy's rebuilds compare favorably. The Katy "backdated" the 311 to make her look older, but I think that MoT would be wise to restore her to her "modern" appearance.


Les
Author:  70000 [ Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Most modern 4-4-0's ?
A Great Central Railway (UK) 4-4-0 "New build" is currently under construction as well...

http://gcr567loco.co.uk/

The new frames have just been cut for this 1890's design locomotive and it seems to be making steady progress.
Author:  Kelly Anderson [ Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Most modern 4-4-0's ?
.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Most modern 4-4-0's ?
That Frisco locomotive is a stunner, and much like what I had in mind when I started the thread. I think PRR held three D16sb's until the mid-thirties, and kept only the 1223.

Oh yes, the Reading ex-Camelback is ugly.
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