Railway Preservation News :: View topic - Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?

Evening, I am looking for the low down dirty truth on the two UP 8500 HP GTEL units.

1. Do either of the two GTEL still have their power turbines? If not what exactly happened to the turbines? I have heard GE removed all 30 turbines and might have used them on a river dredge on the mighty miss river.

2. Does anyone have any good photographs of what is inside both the lead unit and the turbine unit of the two survivors? I can't say I have ever seen any photos of the layout inside one of this might beast.

3. How likely would it be to restore and fire up a UP GTEL in this current environment? I realize short of Uncle Pete. This would be expensive and beyond the means of most preservation groups.

4. Assuming restoring and firing up a 60 year old turbine is possible with the help of GE and aircraft engine experts. How loud would one of these be connected to a passenger train with several support cars between engine and passengers.

I think outside of Bombardier's Jet Train. The Russian TT1 is the worlds only gas turbine locomotive in operation today. If my Russian is any good I think the fuel is Natural Gas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyfu3fW6IjE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPatomyt6DQ

Robert

Author:	BigBoy 4023 [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:38 am ]
Post subject:	Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?
Evening, I am looking for the low down dirty truth on the two UP 8500 HP GTEL units. 1. Do either of the two GTEL still have their power turbines? If not what exactly happened to the turbines? I have heard GE removed all 30 turbines and might have used them on a river dredge on the mighty miss river. 2. Does anyone have any good photographs of what is inside both the lead unit and the turbine unit of the two survivors? I can't say I have ever seen any photos of the layout inside one of this might beast. 3. How likely would it be to restore and fire up a UP GTEL in this current environment? I realize short of Uncle Pete. This would be expensive and beyond the means of most preservation groups. 4. Assuming restoring and firing up a 60 year old turbine is possible with the help of GE and aircraft engine experts. How loud would one of these be connected to a passenger train with several support cars between engine and passengers. I think outside of Bombardier's Jet Train. The Russian TT1 is the worlds only gas turbine locomotive in operation today. If my Russian is any good I think the fuel is Natural Gas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyfu3fW6IjE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPatomyt6DQ Robert

Author:	Lincoln Penn [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?
BigBoy 4023 wrote: Evening, I am looking for the low down dirty truth on the two UP 8500 HP GTEL units. 1. Do either of the two GTEL still have their power turbines? If not what exactly happened to the turbines? I have heard GE removed all 30 turbines and might have used them on a river dredge on the mighty miss river. 2. Does anyone have any good photographs of what is inside both the lead unit and the turbine unit of the two survivors? I can't say I have ever seen any photos of the layout inside one of this might beast. 3. How likely would it be to restore and fire up a UP GTEL in this current environment? I realize short of Uncle Pete. This would be expensive and beyond the means of most preservation groups. 4. Assuming restoring and firing up a 60 year old turbine is possible with the help of GE and aircraft engine experts. How loud would one of these be connected to a passenger train with several support cars between engine and passengers. I think outside of Bombardier's Jet Train. The Russian TT1 is the worlds only gas turbine locomotive in operation today. If my Russian is any good I think the fuel is Natural Gas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyfu3fW6IjE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPatomyt6DQ Robert 1. No. Most ended up as power plants on offshore oil platforms. 2. Check with IRM and Ogden, but neither have turbines. At least one has one generator; the one at IRM has 1 traction motor. 3. Not bloody likely. 4. The noise issue alone would prevent ever restoring one. If you never heard one, you cannot imagine how loud those things were. Like standing at the end of the runway behind an old 737-200 revving up for takeoff. Constantly. UP had to buy hearing aids for thousands of engineers, firemen, brakemen, and shop employees who worked on and around these things back in the day.

Author:	Bulby [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?
UP 18 at IRM retains its turbine, though it is seized up. I believe the generators were removed, along with some of the auxiliaries and the turbine control equipment. The little diesel in the A unit is missing some components but could probably be made to work with a lot of elbow grease and effort. 18 has 2 of its twelve traction motors left, the #1 and #3 motors. The remaining motors are gone and the mounting brackets have been torched off the truck frames, so it wouldn't be as simple as locating replacement motors. Long term plans for the 18 are to preserve it and keep a good coat of paint on it. There are no plans right now to restore it to operation. Some modelers recently filled video of the turbine at IRM including interior shots. I believe the video is available online for free, and includes some history of the UP turbines and some commentary about IRM's plans for the locomotive.

Author:	BigBoy 4023 [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?
Gentleman, Thankyou for answering my questions. I will see if I can find that video on youtube. Robert

Author:	Jdelhaye [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?
UP18 at IRM is missing (at the very least) these components: 10 of the 12 traction motors, truck frames were torched to allow removal without dropping the axles all 4 main generators ( 2 of which are reverse rotation to normal diesel versions), along with the associated exciters, and blowers Aux generator on A unit diesel A unit traction motor blower Traction control electrical cabinets #3 & #4, along with contents of #2 all 4 excitation control cabinets Turbine control cabinet B unit wheelslip control cabinet, as well as contents of A unit cabinet Tender heating alternator 2 of the 3 air compressors turbine fuel injection system, complete with governor, hi pressure pump, and injectors quite a few 21 pin (note, NOT standard 27 pin AAR) MU cables between A, B and Tender numerous traction power cables between A and B Components marked in RED are most probably unique to this class of locomotive, and are most probably extinct Components marked in GREEN are either standard locomotive parts, or could probably be assembled or modified from same. Synopsis: Not very likely for the turbine to ever run again! Possibly could be run on the "little (850HP) diesel" in the A, or used as a control cab. Jeff

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Author:	buzz_morris [ Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?
Jeff is quite right on 18"s condition. 18A was used at Intercontinental Engineering as a switcher in the 1970s using the 6 cylinder diesel and the two front traction motors but that failed too, possibly in Kansas City. Last time someone tried to bar the crankshaft over it was seized. Someone then hot-wired a two cylinder welder, now parked in the B unit, to one of the traction motors to move it at slow speeds. That was also dead by the time it came to the IRM. The turbine and reduction gear is there but with the dollars you would need to get the thing restored to as built would be way beyond rebuilding even a Big Boy. And if it did who out there would like to donate the money to fill the 20,000 gallon fuel tank.

Author:	BigBoy 4023 [ Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?
Thanks for the pictures. I think the program in question is Dovetail studios Train Simulator 2015. Any ideas as to why the traction motors were cut from the trucks? For such a unique locomotive why were so many parts removed from the turbine unit? What reuse did the special alternator and generator gear have? Did GE remove the turbine control gear or the UP? I wonder why GE did not recover the turbine since they scavenged the other turbines Surely GE could have restored the seized turbine for reuse. How many traction motors does the UP GTEL 26 still have on both A and B units? Is UP 6936 now retired? If so, When did UP retire the last DDA40X from excursion service? Sorry for so many questions. Robert

Author:	LeoA [ Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?
The 6936 was just visiting to help celebrate IRM's 60th anniversary in 2013.

Author:	Stationary Engineer [ Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?
I use to know an electrician that worked for Intercontinental, and he said they used the parts from the GTEL's to make cranes. He had to go to Germany to install/service them. They may have been barge mounted, I don't remember. I assume that that was the need for the DC traction motors. I never heard that they were victims of copper thieves, but they did sit on sidings, unprotected, for several years in Kansas City. 18, 6930 and the Lima rotary.

Author:	BigBoy 4023 [ Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?
Thats a shame. Robert

Author:	Utah Josh [ Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?
.

Author:	wesp [ Sat Nov 28, 2015 8:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?
An earlier thread on the UP turbines. http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34710&hilit=union+pacific+turbine

Author:	D,Ritter [ Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?
A couple of shots I took in the 80's at Intercontinental in Riverside, Mo. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=4358237 http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=4358238 Railfans not welcomed due to prior experience. Idiot showed up with a toolbox and no camera about a year before I got there, Or so I was told. Dave

Author:	Lincoln Penn [ Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Looking for the low down on UP GTEL Survivors?
Back in the day, the Salt Lake City Shop was designed and built for the maintenance and heavy repairs of the GTELs. Yes, they could and did do diesels, too, but the bays were built to accommodate turbine A and B units without the need to uncouple them. The cranes were also placed to the best advantage to do work on the turbines. When a turbine or turbines were outshopped, it was necessary to load test them. This required them to be run at full blast (they only had 2 speeds, anyway) while hooked up to a stationary load tester. It wasn't long before that whole end of town was up in arms over UP doing that at night. The noise was horrendous, to the point UP finally had to agree to restrict load testing turbines to daylight hours only, so the good residents of North Salt Lake could get some sleep. And somebody thinks one of these should be restored and run? With NIMBY problems already at a high level, just imagine!!

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