While I am fully aware of the difficulty of having a polite debate on how we can best contribute to a better future for this entity may I suggest that those who are in a position to do so consider lending their support to the new friends group that Superheater &Co. are forming.

I continue to believe that the only way to truly transform the place into a national mecca for operating steam would be for the NPS to outsource its operation to a DO ( with an annual operating subsidy of about 50% of the $ 6 million it now costs Uncle Sam to run the place) so that it can be run efficiently as a private sector enterprise ( close in the winter, staff in numbers appropriate to the level of guests, an incentive agreement with the DL RR that encourages them to want as many steam excursions as possible, etc.,etc.) and other common sense measures that any private sector DO would employ.

However, the reality is that the chances of it ever being outsourced is extremely slim and thus it behooves us to face reality and do the best we can with what we have.

Maybe, just maybe with a new Superintendent and a new Friends group headed up by an energetic, knowledgeable, and devoted person it can bring some new life into the place and perhaps institute a " guest locomotive" program that will attract some visiting steam so that Steamtown can actually live up to its name???

Let's give them our best wishes and support their efforts best we can and see what happens.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Ross Rowland

You have your feet solidly planted on the ground Ross. I wish that we lived in a logical world, but sometimes things do play out well too. Some good thoughts, thanks.

I'm in agreement with Superheater that partnerships with other organizations for mutual benefit is the way to a better future - and not only for Steamtown. Any of us existing in an insular envelope will find ourselves fading away........ In any case, Electric City is another working partnership but not an official one - it's sort of like having all the antique dealers in the same part of town - you build towards a critical mass that becomes a stronger destination than any could do alone. Working through the NPS system to build these partnerships is being successfully worked out by the Friends, and once they are a going concern, they can work with other potential partners to make an easier pathway. Once the market forces are defined, and a product line designed to exploit them, realistic plans should (hopefully) follow.

I frequently donate to the various rail and historical programs in the Scranton area, and I will certainly support the new effort as well. I think that for any conversation on SNHS to be productive, that we must first understand what the park is able, and more importantly not able to do under federal guidelines. The park is a very unique animal and some scenarios just are not going to happen, even with a bottomless bank account. The other aspect is isolating activities that result in a greater amount of proceeds actually staying with the park, and maximizing those opportunities. In the other thread, Roger Cole brought up the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railway. I would be interested to compare the two operations and see where each succeeds and why.

What we all have to remember, is that every poster in these threads wants the same thing – to see Steamtown succeed. We all want it different ways and our definitions are different of what shape that success may take, but we all see potential for more. What does not help are unrealistic expectations of what the park can accomplish, and that is why it is important to learn as much about the structure of the NPS as possible.

I think a big part of the differences is that the National Park Service owns the rails for the CVSR, while the NPS/Steamtown does not own the rails, but the PNRRA does. I believe that's one of the bigger differences between the two operations.

From what I am reading, it looks like the NPS owns the rails but the excursion is a private entity, basically the exact opposite of SNHS.

Superintendent Conway's stint as Operations Supervisor at Cuyahoga National Park was cited in the NPS press release when she was selected for the top spot in Scranton. The press release noted that Cuyahoga is another one of the few national parks that operates railroad excursions in the National Park System. Since it was mentioned in the press release, my inference is that her experience at Cuyahoga and in working with the CVSR was seen as very relevant by the hiring committee and by NPS Northeast Regional Director Mike Caldwell.

Exactly. If people did not care, they would not take the time to post and threads regarding STEA would not have so many views. To me one of the issues is, and has been, a lack of a clear and consistent preservation vision for the site. It is very difficult to garner support for a plan (money and/or volunteers) when there is no clear plan or when there is a plan that has not been developed in collaboration with the people from which one seeks support.

The combination of the industrial ruin in Scranton with the remnants of Mr. Blount's collection is a multifaceted diamond in the rough. The questions are how to best polish that diamond and on which facet or facets should the effort be concentrated to yield the highest probability of a positive and long lasting return.

Yes and no. Eating at a restaurant doesn’t mean you can cook in the kitchen.

Eating at a restaurant = visiting the site. I'm talking about donating time, money, personal goodwill, and materials. This is more akin to investing in a restaurant. You may be happy being a silent partner, but most people want a say in the menu and operation if they are going to pony up. I believe Mr. Rimmasch just covered this concept very nicely in his fantastic two minute business startup primer over on the GoFundMe Chinese loco thread.

But we're not allowed to know what the ingredients are or how the cook makes the food?

At the same time, while we can't decide what items go on the menu, we can still visit the restaurant and can enjoy the food they do offer if we so wish...

I remember see some "investigative reporting" on TV about the NPS perhaps ten years ago that stated that Pennsylvania was considered by NPS lifers as the "penalty box" of the NPS, and if you found yourself assigned to an NPS site in PA, it was a sign that someone higher up was pissed at you, and your career was on a downward spiral.

I have no idea if that actually was or is true, so take that and how it relates to the situation in Scranton for what it's worth.

Given the amount of time and effort the NPS devoted to the most recent leadership transition in Scranton, and the earnestness I personally observed in those involved, I'd tend to doubt the "penalty box" theory. It could have been true at one time in the past or I could have been totally played. I will say that the people on the TMEP team that were tasked with interviewing those involved with the site to gather information for the search criteria were some of the most professional and heads up NPS management/business people I've met such that I could see them performing well in private sector jobs.

Also, thanks for the info on the siding material.

What direction is the superintendent getting from the NPS? Are they giving her specific directives or just blanket demands? Or none at all?

What, in your mind, would be the best path moving forward? What are the 5, 10, and 15 year goals? Personally, I do not see a need for more than two operable steam engines at any one time. The diesels do a more than fair job with any overflow, and at a reduced cost to operate. And who the heck is going to crew all of these trains? Would you shutter the interior exhibits, or the archives, and shift the majority of the staff to the yard and backshop?

I do not see much room to change the excursion schedule. The ice train was nice when it was still running. I do think there is more room for in-house activities, such as switching demonstrations, caboose rides, etc. The longer trips (four hours plus) are just too much for most people. One thing that I would definitely do, if it would be at all possible, would be to rent a track speeder. The greatest opportunity that I see right now is continued involvement with the ELDCPS; they have the ability to offer something different within the existing framework. The DL has been very active as well.

What would bring more people through the doors? I think we all feel there is a need to actively preserve more of the collection but realistically, more cosmetically restored static displays may leave you with a better feeling about the park but it won't draw more visitors. What about asset management? Is it time to donate, sell, trade or scrap? And if keeping steam at Steamtown is a priority, (and by the declining numbers I would sure say that it should be), and you can’t hire the additional staff necessary, then someone needs to put aside their pride and farm out the heavy restoration work to a capable shop.