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Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
https://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38831		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
This image is both appearing on the a Northeast Rails site and being offered on eBay. Sweet little locomotive, but a bit mysterious. She's Philadelphia and Reading #1, obviously a switcher. Built in 1883, she has link and pin couplers, and a pushing pole mounted to the pilot. The wood work for the cab alone is elegant, but...where are the fuel and water supplies? Perhaps the firebox isn't as wide as it seems, and the cabinets alongside hold an "only as needed" amount of each?
Just beautiful as an artifact - does anyone know of line drawings existing for the little critter? Also, is she black with gold stripes and lettering, or a dark wine red with gold stripes and lettering?
She'd make an interesting live steamer if drawings could be found.

Image

Thank for suggestions or assistance.

-Dick
Author:  Dave [ Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
Are you sure that's not a Wootten firebox under the jacket, Dick? That badge between the drivers is about the shape of a Porter plate - but not sure of that era, they changed over the years........ My guess is they shoveled in a shitload of anthracite and ran her for a long time around the yard before she needed more - Pioneer Coal Mine has no coal bunker either. The water tanks appear to be between the cab floor and the tops of the drivers.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
Dave- That explanation s probably as close to the truth as we'll get. I think she has a Wooten firebox, and I agree, there's water under the engineer's seat. Stoking her up on anthracite and then running her for as long as it held up makes good sense too. I doubt she ever left the docks area. Cutest little steamer I've seen in years, but I'm a sucker for Camels and Camelbacks anyway. I never tumbled to the Porter shield, either, so that's a good piece of the puzzle. Thanks! I'd still love a set of drawings, if they exist.
Author:  John T [ Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
After a quick look I can't find a Porter built for the Philadelphia & Reading that matches. What about that oval plate on the valve chest? A lot of little locos used around coal mines had no fuel bunker. they would just shovel from a loaded car as needed.
Author:  Reading 900 [ Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
Richard, try the Reading Co. Technical and Historical organization in Hamburg, PA.

http://www.readingrailroad.org/
I'm sure they can point you toward a source for the prints.

Alan
NESCO & RCT&HS member
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
For the record, the natural-born skeptic in me questioned whether or not this was certain to be a Philadelphia & Reading loco. On the other hand, it appears to be the wrong gauge for the Phillips & Rangeley.......

But a quick perusal of my books on the Reading show a few other locos in the P&R 1880-1900 era with matching lettering--that seemingly "8"-based ampersand and the unusual "R". And that's definitely a Wootten firebox.

Now, where did I bury that old copy of the R&LHS Bulletin with a supposedly complete P&R roster?.......
Author:  Chris Webster [ Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
Richard Glueck wrote:
The wood work for the cab alone is elegant, but...where are the fuel and water supplies? Perhaps the firebox isn't as wide as it seems, and the cabinets alongside hold an "only as needed" amount of each?


Assuming it was assigned to a coal dock, it seems to me that the fireman would just get coal out of whatever loaded hopper it happened to be coupled to.

(In other words, why bother transferring coal from a hopper into a locomotive tender when you could just throw coal from a hopper directly into the firebox?)
Author:  Bobharbison [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
Chris Webster wrote:
Assuming it was assigned to a coal dock, it seems to me that the fireman would just get coal out of whatever loaded hopper it happened to be coupled to.


I was wondering the same thing, especially given what looks to be a coal car in the background. Probably lots of the stuff around, just grab what's handy from a company car.

Meanwhile, if you look at the original photo full size, it's really impressive!
Author:  philip.marshall [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Now, where did I bury that old copy of the R&LHS Bulletin with a supposedly complete P&R roster?.......


I assume you mean R&LHS Bulletin 67, "History of the Locomotives of the Reading Company" by George M. Hart. Alas, that's one I'm missing. I do have a copy of Bulletin 118 with F. S. Graham's "Locomotives of the Sub-Lines of the Philadelphia & Reading Railway" but can't find anything that matches in his rosters.
Author:  mldeets [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
I also like the "back up" headlight under the canopy. I wonder if the firedoor was just above the buffer beam? mld
Author:  6-18003 [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
Looks like a pre-Wooten Millholland design, prob 1860s
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
Excellent discussion, guys. Thank you , everyone! There is a P&R #1 listed in the Northeast Rails site. Says it was constructed in 1883, which fits into the photo rather well, but guarantees nothing.
Author:  HudsonL [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
Looks like a shovel and other fireman's tools on the rear pilot beam.

-Hudson
Author:  dinwitty [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
easily looks like water tanks on the side, perhaps under the rear, looks like some lift cover thing behind the boiler, some coal bin?, , throw some coal in it. I wonder if some raw mined coal isn't chunked down to the right size for this engine. It would obviously work the docks and stay close to its working fuel supply. Rear headlight location very differrent, perhaps clearances dictated that.
Author:  Bob D. [ Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
Is this loco standard gauge or something else?

Bob D.
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