After reading through parts of the Steamtown thread, I noted one of the suggestions in particular seems to be a recurring theme in other discussions as well. “Just hire more people who know what they are doing”. Separate of the financial concerns, the main problem with that idea is there really aren’t a lot of people out there who have that kind of experience. I am quite familiar with that issue because of the difficulty we have had over the years doing that very thing. Except for possibly a machinist, there is little hope with having your new hire hit the ground running. I don’t care if you hire a mechanic, boilermaker, or even a car knocker with 20 years of experience, there is going to be a lot of OJT. How many machinists can time a locomotive? How many car inspectors have ever seen a solid bearing or know what a P or K-valve is? How many carpenters out there are familiar with steaming wood so it can be bent for molding in the ceiling in a wooden passenger car?
We invest much time and money in all the trades, and that even includes the mechanical engineering trade. While they have the technical background, they don’t have the experience with how a locomotive boiler works/reacts that is critical when doing reverse engineering calculations. Interpretation of the vessel, which is essential, comes with experience.
Heck, we even had to help along our Authorized Inspector (for ASME/R stamp work) concerning riveted boilers and threaded staybolts. Much of the knowledge that is required to do this type of work just isn’t taught in school anymore. Why? Because there is so little demand for fixing things such as 100 year old railroad equipment. From my experience, boilermakers are the hardest ones to “find”. How many boilermakers know how to tap up a firebox, caulk seams, drive rivets, or install threaded staybolts? We typically start with a welder and go from there. Five or more years later, you have someone who knows the basics, but has a whole lot more to learn.
The point I’m trying to make is that people that do this work don’t grow on trees. You can’t “just go out and hire them” by putting an ad in the paper or calling your local trade school. It’s just not that easy.
Rick

That's the unblemished truth. It's easy for the armchair experts to talk about, but nearly impossible to find anyone who, as you said, hit the ground running.
That's also the reason a lot of museums end up hurting too.

If the industry as a whole started to pay a living wage, you would find people who would stick around and learn like the old timers used to instead of skipping town at a better opportunity. It is far easier today to find good opportunities beyond your native region because so much information is readily available on our home computer. We can't rely on weekend volunteers and railfan pools much longer because the leadership from the valuable experienced folks who learned second-hand steam are starting to leave the workforce. I'd love to see people who are passionate for the railroad work for the railroad, but I've known quite a few people who have come and gone in their 20's because they couldn't afford to pay the bills off the meager wages that are offered more-often-than-not.

A friend of mine has told me repeatedly that the steam industry is dying because of this and previous reasons mentioned earlier in the thread, and I feel he is absolutely right.

This is not unique to the tourist railroad industry. I teach at a technical high school and can tell you that getting young people into the trades is not easy. You tell them they can make $30 per hour as a boilermaker or boiler operator and they think they are going to work at a video game store and be fine. I have former students making $100K per year as boiler and power plant technicians and also see young people struggling to make $10-12 per hour in retail.

Dosen't China have a bunch of people who have worked on steam?

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Kelly, I enjoyed reading your post because it reminds me of some experiences I've endured, of which I will not be specific.

I'm not the most experienced steam engineer, nor will I ever be to the point where I'm satisfied. I'm extremely proud of my experiences and when I'm on an engine I will do everything I can to do the job better than anyone else and to the best of my ability. This stuff can be so much fun but the worst days come from working with a guy who just follows the lesson he was taught on day one or two of training and never gets better, never tries to get better, never understands what he's doing, and never understands the principles of why something works or does not. I also realize that no matter how many engines I work on under different conditions, I will never know it all despite my best efforts and my greatest frustration is when that same conflict is used as a justification for poor performance.

"That's how we've always done it."

"The C&O did it this way but we aren't the C&O."

"The C&O always did it this way."

"Those old guys never did that when I started here."

"He's a nice guy but..."

"When you get to this bridge..."
(tree, curve, milepost, always turn on the injector... add coal, etc.)

"You've gotta pay your dues."

I feel that the end-of-steam era holds some interesting lessons, but many folks interpret that same era as "The Age of Steam", which it was not and you exemplified. This misinterpretation is partially killing the industry because so many folks are handing down bad habits, examples, ideas, and maintenance practices that were only patches to a problem that never needed to be resolved and most of them don't realize the problem.

I'm primarily a mining guy (mining engineer) and we've seen the same thing. When I ran a cement mill in Michigan, we were always fully staffed with good engineers, because of the decline of the auto industry. However, our sister plant in Allentown, Pa, was NEVER staffed up because of the stronger economy in the becoming- suburban NY area. They'd hire new graduate engineers, and they'd be gone in a year or two (mostly to the drug/tech companies) because they would see all their friends working 8-hr days M-F in a nice air-conditioned cubicle. Cement mills are hot, dirty and 24-7-365.

In the power plant end of it now, I can tell you the trades (union halls) are screaming for tradesman. The unions have been hiring students out of the local vo-tech schools with the argument "why are you paying to go to school, we'll train you in our apprentice ship program, pay you while you learn, and guarantee you a job when you are done....."

All of the local machine shops, fabricators and contractors I deal with complain about lack of good people...skills is part of it, but also people who will show up consistently, no drugs/calling off, work and keep busy and show initiative and produce good quality and go the extra steps to produce a good job and etc. Even though our county has a horrible unemployment rate.....I'm told.."all the good people are working, the ones who aren't have issues"

One company owner told me Friday, "I hire ten and lucky to have three good ones to stay after 6 months......."

I retired 13 years ago after spending my working life in the machine tool industry. I worked my way from an entry level "sand and deburr" position to throughout the whole shop in different departments such as drill press, lathe and milling. I eventually made it into what they called "Special Products" which was one off and custom work. After a few years of that I progressed on to tool and die work and then management.
Over the span of 35 years, I watched the level of skills eroding and people becoming basically button pushers. The skill of troubleshooting machining problems nearly disappeared and basic knowledge of what tools do, what cutting clearance is all about, what taps to use and how to mill parts dwindled. Work ethic has taken a big hit over the years as has dedication to quality and pride in your work.
It is nearly impossible today to hire people like those who started at the time when I did and before.
I'm glad I'm not trying to train new people today. The last ten years or so, I got used to the deer in the headlights look.
Kelly understands this and it sounds like he had a good crew up there.
There seems to be a growing number of charlatans roaming the country posing as "experts" and not enough people who know when they are being played.

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The thing I seem to find is that there are those places that are looking for somebody, but they don't want to hire someone new and teach them the ways of the road. By trade, I am an aircraft mechanic. Been certified since 2009. However, when I go to apply for an open position at an airline they laugh. "Not enough exprience". How can one have experience for a job that is an entry level job?

And this exact same thing is running rampant in the railroad industry as a whole. Railroading has become nothing more than a computer game to most. Engineers can't run a locomotive because the computer is running it or telling them what to do. Dispatchers can't dispatch because they are just doing what a computer tells them to do. Clerks have no idea how the real railroad works so customer service is a farce. Those folks just read to you what the computerized trip plan tells them to. A computer is a tool.....not a crutch. It has unfortunately become a crutch of the mind. Most men and women working for the class one's these days don't know a plug door from a switch frog.

For some interesting views on this, I'd recommend Nicholas Carr's "The Shallows: What the Internet Is Doing to Our Brains" and his recent follow up book, "The Glass Cage: How Our Computers Are Changing Us".

Being an active follower of RyPN for years, I have seen previous and current discussions about the shortage of qualified Steam Mechanics.

I have 30+ years of steam expertise and 10 years as a Machinist. I have no intention of retiring any time soon and would like to work on steam.

As for my experience, I volunteered at the Illinois Railway Museum for a decade, worked full time at the Henry Ford Museum for 23 years, Part time at Disney World for 6 years, and also have 11 years spent as a Machine Shop Foreman.

During my years as a machinist and student of the steam locomotive, I have learned how to operate the machines essential to the care and maintenance of steam locomotives. Volunteering gave me the opportunity to develop my machinist skills with the goal of maintenance, preservation and restoration.

Once I began my career in steam era railroading, I was able to further my knowledge in repairing and rebuilding the iron horse. Steam locomotive repair was only one of the many responsibilities. I also have experience in passenger and freight car repair, track maintenance, scheduling and training of crews, writing procedural and safety manuals and budgeting.

As a cast member at Walt Disney World, I was completing repairs of Disney locomotives and passenger cars at the Magic Kingdom and completed thorough training in hospitality and guest interaction.

I am now looking for an opportunity to return to the profession of steam preservation. I have done running gear work; turned drivers, machined driving boxes, installed new crown brasses and machined new shoes and wedges. I have done boiler work which included replacing tube sheets and tubes, installing stay bolts, tramming frames, setting valves and building machine tools necessary to the maintenance of steam locomotives.

Steam maintenance and preservation is a lifetime of learning, but I can confidently say that I could “hit the ground running” with my experience and background. (Resume available)

I gave up 14 years of steam experience to work for a steamless Class 1. I feel a little bad sometimes, but I still hold membership at a certain museum that owns a well traveled CNW R-1. Maybe one day I'll be more centered on steam after paying all the bills...